The New Orleans bench: Astute readers of this site know that I've had a hairy eyeball on the Hornets' reserves for most of the season, particularly after Jeff Bower "strengthened" the team's bench by trading away Bobby Jackson for Pit Bull and The Bonz. Which, honestly, should have been enough to disqualify Bower from NBA Executive of the Year voting, not a reason for him to finish third.

As the risk of going all Basketball 101 here, the lack of solid and reliable bench play will wear a team down over the course of a long season and extended playoff series (for further reading, see the 1984-85, 1986-87 and 1987-88 Boston Celtics). Because that means the coach is basically asking his starters to log all the big minutes, play great (or at least solid) defense with little rest, withstand various and sundry injuries without time off, carry the rebounding load, and score 80-90 points a game every game for 80-100 games. It's an impossible task, even for the young.

Gregg Popovich knows that, which is why none of his big guns average more than 34 minutes a game. And it doesn't hurt that they play at a pace that's a little easier on the feet, knees, legs and back than what the helter-skelter Suns and Hornets go through. Of course, it helps that he has multiple championships on his resume, which means the Spurs management and owners trust him when he sacrifices some regular season games here or there to save his team from unnecessary wear and tear.

And just check it: Chris Paul played 47 minutes. David West logged 46. Peja was in the game for 44. And Tyson Chandler played 42. Take away Jannero Pargo -- more on him below -- and the New Orleans reserves contributed 1 point (0-for-3), 1 rebound, 1 steal and 2 fouls in nine minutes. Greg Kite could have gotten more done in nine minutes. I mean, at least he would have finished with 6 fouls and probably a couple turnovers.

Fun fact: Bonzi's real name is Gawen Deangelo Wells. The nickname Bonzi originated from the cravings his mother had for ice cream bonbons during her pregnancy with him. (Apparently, he inherited those cravings.) His parents called him "bonbon" until the age of two, when it evolved to what it is today.

The New Orleans Starters: The Hornets were giving me 2001-02 Sacramento Kings flashbacks last night, and it wasn't just the presence of Peja Stojackovic (although he really, really helped). Whether it was fatigue or nerves -- or some combination of the two -- New Orleans' "Fantastic Four" looked like they were afraid of the ball in the fourth quarter.

Peja -- who's been a non-factor since Popovich unleashed Bruce Bowen on him -- shot 3-for-11 from the field and 1-for-5 from downtown, and he even airballed an open three down the stretch. David West finished with 20 and 9, but he boned an open 12-footer, and it was hard to tell whether it was because of a sore back or a tight scrotum. Chris Paul (18 points, 8 rebounds, 14 assists, 5 steals) had an outstanding game, but even he caught a case of don'twannashoottheballitis in the final four minutes or so. And as for Tyson Chandler, well, he's not exactly an offensive option, is he?

Jannero Pargo: Pargs was the only New Orleans player who didn't treat the rock like a hot potato in the fourth quarter. And he went off for 16 points in the final stanza, single-handedly leading the Hornets back from 17 down to within three points. But damn, Jannero...you weren't even letting the ground touch the ball, dog. He was jackin' from the left to the right to the left to the right again. He was not shy. He put up 13 shots in those fateful 12 minutes. And like Ryne from Odenized, I'm not sure whether he was the hero or the goat.

I guess it's like Obi-Wan Kenobi told Luke after Yoda kicked it: Either could be true, depending on your point of view. Which was a pretty slick way of getting out of totally lying to Luke about his father. I've always thought Obi-Wan used the Jedi Mind Trick on Luke in that scene. I mean, it went from "But you told me Vadar betrayed and murdered my father!" to "What I told you was true...from a certain point of view." And Luke just bought it.

Chistastrophe: I don't know who he is, but since he left the following comment, I will let him be the official representative of overreactive Spurs fans everywhere. "I eagerly await whatever bullshit response Basketbawful has for the Spurs resounding victory tonight. Perhaps the Spurs employed some special kind of flop that allows their bench players to drain three pointers. Maybe they flopped so hard it forced CP3 to choke in the biggest game of his life. Or maybe, just maybe, the Spurs are really really good at playing basketball."

Thanks, Chistastrophe, because I myself eagerly await douchey comments from every angry spaz who gets all bent out of shape by one or two posts I make and then freaks out about it. But before the next time you start whining and crying bullshit, do me a favor: Go back and actually read what I have to say. The entire Basketbawful archive is here for your perusal. You show me where, exactly, I ever said the Spurs weren't a good basketball team. Have I ever, anywhere, at any time, ever seriously suggested that the Spurs won four championships through their flop-a-riffic adventures and cheap-shottery? Of course I didn't. You're insane if you think otherwise, and you've got nothing to go on other than your own righteous indignation.

You can't change the fact that, in a league full of floppers, the Spurs are the most flop-tastic. Nor can you change the fact that Tony Parker got outted by his own wife for faking injuries on the court to get calls. You can't pretend the Duncan face doesn't happen over and over and over again every game the Spurs play. Nor can you undo Cheap Shot Rob's thuggary or Bruce Bowen's long, long history of grabbing, elbowing, hitting, kneeing, wacking people in the groin, putting his foot under their feet when they come down from a jump shot, and a thousand other little things that would get his bony ass kicked seven ways to Sunday if it happened anywhere other than on a professional basketball court...where Bruce "Lee" Bowen is protected by the very rules he repeatedly violates.

So honestly, don't blame me for pointing out what's going on right in front of you. I didn't create all that ugliness; I just held a mirror up to it. When Gregg Popovich goes to the Hack-A-Whoever strategy -- which I see as an affront to the sport -- I'm going to point it out. When the Spurs use an array of flops to draw five iffy fouls in three minutes and get the opposing team's two best players in foul trouble in the playoffs where physical play is the rule rather than the exception, I'm going to point it out. When one of their players launches himself directly into the back of an injured player during a 20-point blowout, I'm going to point it out.

Here's the thing: It's not like I'm not making this stuff up. This isn't me saying, "You know how I know the Spurs are gay? Because Robert Horry still has Will Smith's haircut from 1989." These things have happened. It's out there for public consumption. Everybody sees it. Everybody knows about it. No, it doesn't mean that the Spurs don't play smart, fundamental, championship-winning basketball, nor does it change the fact that they are the model any and every team should emulate. But no matter how hard you and other Spurs fans try to rewrite history, all that other stuff is just as much a part of their legacy as all the hardware in their trophy case.

So please, stop ragging on me for pointing that out and ask yourself why you think it's all okay? If winning at any cost is cool with you, then fine. As a fan, that's your choice to make. But if that is, in fact, the case, I can't help but wonder why me shining a flashlight on all the dirty stuff bothers you so much.

Random note: Those of you who claim I never say anything positive about the Spurs or their winning ways obviously didn't ready today's NBA Closer column.

Damon Stoudamire: Anybody else notice he's not even on the Spurs game roster since Game 5?

Update! Charles Barkley: In an effort to get things back on their usual funny track, loyal reader Wild Yams reminded me of something I should have remembered on my own. "I meant to mention earlier that Charles Barkley probably shoulda been included in the WotN for a couple things last night. First for his very unintentionally funny bit with EJ about his gambling. Not only was it just really weird to see those two all alone on the set trying to have a serious moment (especially with Barkley's glaringly white sneakers and socks to go with his suit), but Barkley said he was never going to gamble again, which he immediately clarified to mean 'in the next year or two.' That was priceless, and so was EJ trying to bait him into breaking it by saying 'wanna bet?' Inside the NBA is the wrong place for serious talk like that from the Chuckster, I'm afraid.

"Chuck's second big gaffe was saying that this Laker team is the best one Kobe's ever been on, although him saying that was totally worth it for Webber's fantastic reaction of wanting to walk off the set in disbelief. I love how Barkley shoots from the hip like that and doesn't think through the things he's about to say (see above), because every now and then he'll let fly with a Bill Walton-esque bit of hyperbole like that. God bless Barkley."

Right you are, Mr. Yams. Right you are. Although I'd probably say that Chuck shoots from the lip rather than the hip, but potato, tomato, as Joy Turner might say. Here's his "apology" for gambling:

And here's where he slams his giant, club foot in his mouth about Kobe's "best team":

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Anonymous Anonymous said...
I know you are objective viewer, but as a Hornets fan I might as well stop reading the internet today, because that "douchey comment" smackdown is the best thing I'm going to see. Hands down.

Blogger Unknown said...
If a team wins long enough, the average sports fan out there will find reasons to hate them. You admit that it's a league full of floppers, but then you single out the Spurs. You call Horry "Cheap Shot Rob", but ask yourself honestly if you would have even noticed his collision with David West if that had been any other defender in the league? (And why wasn't Horry a cheap shot artist when he was in a Lakers uniform?)
I understand that the casual NBA fan is probably tired of the Spurs at this point, but what I object to are the manufactured attacks on their character. For years, everyone complained that the Spurs were boring goody-goodies, and now suddenly they're thugs. So which bullshit story do you want to stick with?

Blogger Unknown said...
Not MY insane, YOUR insane. Really aren't you a writer?

Blogger Basketbawful said...
ticktock6 -- Be careful, my friend. You're going to hurt the Internets' feelings...

spencer -- This has nothing to do with the Spurs winning. I mean, have you looked around my site? I criticize everybody. Just a few posts ago, I identified my beloved Reggie Miller (whom I have referred to as a god here more than once) as one of the worst offenders of the pre-Flop Era. I mean, this site is called Basketbawful, yet I'm singling the Spurs out? Come on, now.

Horry got his "Cheap Shot Rob" nickname not only after his shot to West's meaty flank. That incident happened barely a year after he thugged Steve Nash. Am I really supposed to just forget that happened? And in not one but both cases, the games were essentially over: The Suns had locked up the game in which Horry took down Nash and the Spurs were up by 20+ when Horry blasted West...who, in case you forgot, was already injured in the spot where Horry hit him. And, considering the circumstances, I would have pointed it out no matter who did it.

But I'm just singling Horry out because he's a Spur. Riiiiiight. You keep on believing that. Whatever helps you get to sleep at night.

And for the record, I had plenty of beefs with Horry as a Laker, but most of that had to do with all the woofing he did after hitting a three. I also had a beef with Rob when he tossed a towel in Danny Ainge's face during his Phoenix days. HOWEVER...that all pre-dated this site. But I promise that once I finish my time machine, I'll go back and create Basketbawful earlier so that I can criticize Rob earlier so you won't feel like I'm blindsiding your Spurs.

And like I said, these aren't manufactured attacks. What, you think that Bowen whacks people in the groin and steps on them and karate kicks them in the head and falls on them knee-first and etc. all by accident? How did I manufacture all those things? Did I manufacture Eva Longoria telling the press her husband admitted faking injuries to get fouls? She's not my pupper, Spencer, however much I wish that were the case. I also didn't Photoshop the countless examples of Duncan face that have been posted here and elsewhere. That's not manufacturing. I wish I had that kind of power. I don't.

And your "First they were goody-goodies, and now they're suddenly thugs" line was your, not mine. So don't credit me with a "bullshit story" you authored in a comment and would not find anywhere on this site if you looked around it for the rest of your life.

Blogger Andrei said...
So when Parker and Fisher get within close proximity to each other on the floor of the Staples Center and a breeze picks up, tossing both of them 20 feet away in opposite directions, who are the refs going to call the foul on?

Blogger SFGary said...
spencer asks "why wasn't Horry a cheap shot artist when he was in a Lakers uniform?". Part of the answer is implied in the post - The Spurs are a magnificent team that happens to employ rough, verging on dirty tactics. He's part of the team.

But a better answer is age. Horry ain't what he used to be. He didn't need to play dirty to play for a winner in his relative youth, but his value would have disappeared with his diminishing skills if he wasn't willing to do the dirty work.

Combine his willingness to play the part with the Spurs culture of "what it takes" and you have the perfect recipe for a dirty player.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
David -- Wow. I mean...wow. You found AN ENTIRE TYPO in a 1,500-word blog post. I'm, well, I'm just freaking impressed as all hell. Not only am I officially turning in my Bachelor of Arts in Writeology, I officially dub you Supreme Mugwump of Editeers. All, hail David!!

No, really. I'm ashamed. Because writers never make mistakes. There's never been a typo on, say, TrueHoop or any other sports blog. Like, ever. Egg: It's what's on my face.

Blogger Christian Angelo said...
Douches never cease bro. I've experienced some douchebags on my site who keeps on protecting Robert Horry despite all the facts that I threw at them.

Oh well, atleast that guy made the Worst of the Night.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Basketbawful used to be a fun website to read. Now it's just a Basketawful whine site.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Lol @ the typo thing. I've seen typos in mass-published books that sell millions of copies. I see typos on yahoosports and foxsports articles. I'd say this blog does fine as far as typos considering you probably don't have people whose FULL TIME JOB is to edit your writing.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
seriously dude chill out ... you have been giving shit to the Spurs for months now and just cos you start off with "the spurs are a great basketball team" doesnt make you look good when it is always BUT or in the middle of giving them shit. You look like a guy caught between his love of people play hard disciplined ball and your love of the teams you like, such as the Celtics and the Suns. Fair enough they are your teams but I hope you understand if as a Spurs fan I get tired of only hearing tepid praise for the team or hearing them being ripped for playing right up to the limit of rules as they are currently and playing to their strengths and to their opponents weaknesses. Just be nice to go to a messageboard and just read nicer things you know? I guess it is the internet though and I KNOW I'd be shitty if I felt the Spurs were ripped off. I know I did a couple years back against the Mavs. You hate Hack a Shaq .. fine, get Shaq to hit some free throws, or maybe how about making it illegal to leave LeBron space to shoot just inside the 2 point cos he can't hit the shot too well ... or make it illegal for anyone "guarded" by Steve Nash to take a shot since he sucks at D ... and flopping? I'm all for stopping that, just have to change the rules back to where touching the offensive player wasn't a foul and the resulant sensitivity to ANY contact offensive or defensive ... although that would be unfair to the a lot of teams but at least Horry's foul on Nash wouldn't be the big deal everyone seems to have made it. Seriously ... 2 games for that? Please. Wishing for the days where ball was a physical and athletic sport not just an athletic event. I have to say I take it as an affront to the game that anyone can think that taking advantage of an opponents weakness is an affront to the game. and for the Suns they are such a momentum team that something that attacks a weakness AND steals their abilty to built momentum and hit 3s is perfect to me and any coach that wouldn't do it, well what are they there for if they won't guide there team to attack a weakness that has benefits even if it doesn't work perfectly. You'd rather try to play your opponent's style and lose than make them slow down and win? Anyway, hope I haven't been too reactionary or full of shit or anything and that some of what I said makes some sense ... I am still looking forward to watching even if the Spurs aren't on top for much longer, just happy to have C Paul, D Howard, D Williams and all the rest coming through :) oh and I do like your work, just tired of all the Spurs stuff right now - j

Blogger dee Kay said...
I've been reading this site for some time and it's pretty friggin obvious that you are not a big fan of the spurs. So don't even say that you're being objective when you point out the "bad", but never seem to credit them for anything good they have done, which is basically being the best team since Jordan retired. Every post on here about the spurs is negative, so I think Chistastrophe is right, you never do credit the spurs for winning and doing what good basketball teams are supposed to do.

Blogger Unknown said...
basketbawful -- Fair enough. Understand that not all of my criticisms were targeted specifically at your or your writings, but rather the common complaints I hear out there from NBA fans on a regular basis. And the goody-goody thing was part of the regular media narrative about the Spurs up until a couple of years ago--coincidentally or not, after we won a couple more titles.
So to respond to your other points, I don't mean to suggest that the Spurs are saints that have never done anything wrong. Ginobili is unquestionably a flopper. Bowen is a physical defender, and has certainly laid down some cheap shots in his day (though I think that his reputation has also caused many incidents to be blown out of proportion to an extent that wouldn't have happened for other players). I truly believe that Horry's check on Nash wasn't intended to be as hard as it was, though the foul itself was obviously intentional. And I'm not buying at all that Horry targeted David West's back. His arm never moved, it was held out there in the same position that any defender would use against an offensive player in the low post--at the level of the offensive player's lower back. Basketball's a rough game, and these things happen sometime. (Oh, and forgive me if I don't respond to any charges which rely on Eva Longoria as a source).
I know by now I sound like I'm making excuses. Maybe I am. But the bottom line is that every team in the NBA has laid down a hard foul or a cheap shot every now and then. Yet I don't know another team that is consistently vilified as thugs for it. The Spurs, like every other team, deserve their share of criticism. What they don't deserve, in my opinion, is to have their character attacked, or to be painted as the villains of the league.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
fellas, fellas- let's save the hate for people who really deserve it- the Lakers and their "fans."

Anonymous Anonymous said...
what is really funny about everything you write about the spurs "issues" is how it's pretty much just media-types, bloggers, and other non-spurs fans who talk about all this stuff. sure, there are several players in the league who have issues with maybe bruce bowen or robert horry, but as a whole, the Spurs are the MOST respected franchise in the league right now. they consistently build upon their success even though they consistently have low draft picks and don't make "blockbuster" trades. the coaches (Mike Brown/Carlisimo) that have studied under Popovich go on to get head coaching jobs (as did a previous point guard who was mentored by Pop while he played for him) and people within their organization have gotten big-time GM positions within the NBA (Presti/Ferry). But really, they're just a bunch of floppers and cheap-shot artists whose Coach relies on d-league tactics?

Give up bro. You can sit there and criticize every single team, player, coach, and game in the NBA and find stuff to write about. You've obviously done well at that. However, what you seem to be doing more of is this: "Yo, that girl is fuckin' fine, but she has a beer belly and stinks like fish". If you are going to write about awful stuff, keep it awful and don't try to pretend you care.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
dee kay -- Sorry, friend. But you, like the rest of the complainers, are full of the runny you-know-what. Do me one favor: Try reading my site before making uninformed comments, mmmm'kay?

"...never seem to credit them for anything good they have done..." eh? Well, check out this excerpt from this year's NBA Bestern Conference Preview post:

"Tim Duncan is the best player in the NBA, and has been for most of the last decade. There. I said it. Prepare for boring championship numero cinco of the Duncan Era. But look at the bright side, rest of the NBA. Maybe a meteor will hit Duncan's house."

That's just one of many examples you would have noticed if you'd been reading my site over the years...or paying attention, if you have, in fact, been reading it. So coming here and claiming I make a bunch of unfounded claims (which are typically founded by video, photo, game recaps, etc.) with your own unfounded claims doesn't make a lot of sense.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
You receive one stupid comment from a Spurs fan and you blow your top.

Horry's Nash again. It's amazing how a single incident can mark a player's career. No one would even remember it nowadays if Amare and the other idiot hadn't left the bench and gotten suspended by Stern - who acted like another idiot. I've seen hundreds of harder fouls in the playoffs, and no one calls those players cheap shot artists. Horry tried to draw an offensive foul and then hit Nash hard. And Nash flopped, too, with his arms flying back after he was on the ground.

It's as "spencer" said. If the foul on West had been done by any other player, no one would've given it a second thought. But it's Horry! And he'd tried to injure Nash! Everyone had been looking for another hard foul by Horry, and they finally found it.

Bowen can't be defended, but the other stuff you said as FACT is ridiculous. Those "five straight iffy fouls" are more than debatable - hell, you read the comments people left in your previous post. Can't you at least acknowledge that other people might see them as fouls?

And the "fact" that the Spurs are the team that flops the most is another winner. C'mon, Bawful, you've seen other teams flop consistently, right? Most teams do just as much exaggeration to "sell fouls" as the Spurs, some even more. I won't back up my words with YT vids, because I don't have the time, so you'll probably dismiss it. But it's my honest opinion.

The Hack-a thing and the Duncan face are silly arguments. You might not like them, but they don't hurt the sport. I'll just say that even you pointed out that many players share Duncan's face.

And this line: "If winning at any cost is cool with you, then fine. As a fan, that's your choice to make."

Wow. So, after all that I wrote above, you still can't see how a Spurs fan might love his team, regardless of those isolated incidents you speak of? Do you think we _know_ that the Spurs are dirty and forgive them because we don't mind "winning at any cost"? Or maybe we don't think the world is as dark as you make it to be, and simply have a different view on reality?

Whatever. We care about what you write because this is a good site for basketball fans. You should be proud that people take the time to comment on your posts and argue with you.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Here's the thing about the Spurs...

Bruce Bowen is the biggest cheapshot artist in the league. No one else in the league who plays chippy and rough goes so far as to kick other players. Bowen does. And then, if he gets caught (which isn't too often), he puts on a "What? Me!? Nawww" attitude which is infuriating. Seriously, look up on YouTube when he kicked Ray Allen in the back. It's like...it's absoluely mind boggling. Rodman and Lambeir (sp?) combined weren't this obnoxious.

But. All the flopping the Spurs do is within the context of the rules. There is no rule against flopping in the NBA so the Spurs continue to use that to their advantage. This is very much like the Patriots pre-2004 in the NFL. The CBs and Safetys would be very rough with the WRs and TEs because the league didn't enforce the rules very well back then. The enforcement of the Illegal Contact penalty by the league was a direct result of teams like the Pats playing how they do. So until the NBA institutes a flop foul, the Spurs will continue to take advantage of the situation. As they should.

Oh, and for the fourth time posted on this blog by me. If the NHL refs can recognize and call a flop/dive penalty, why can't the NBA refs learn to do the same thing?

Blogger Wild Yams said...
andrei - More than the Fisher vs Parker flop-a-thon, I'm more curious to see what happens when Manu and Vujacic get within 10 feet of one another. Gasol vs Oberto could be another comic floparoo.

Mr. Bawful, after reading all this whining by these Spurs fans, I've decided that I never again will give you any shit for crapping on the Lakers and their shenanigans, since I no doubt sound just as whiny and annoying.

Dear Spursfans, STFU. You root for a widely hated team, just accept it. Quit trying to win everyone over and give up on the idea that people are going to celebrate your team, cause it's never going to happen. People will always give them the respect that a dynasty such as theirs deserves, but don't expect them to be lionized by the basketball world who loathes their very presence. You're not very different from Kobefans who want everyone to love him as much as they do, and want everyone to acknowledge that he's the greatest player ever the way they think he is. Embrace the fact that your team is successful and it pisses everyone off and stop whining about it. People recognize how good they've been for the last decade, but most basketball fans are dancing around with excitement in anticipation of finally being able to throw dirt on their coffin whenever that day comes. Maybe people have invented reasons for why they hate the Spurs or maybe the reasons are real. It doesn't matter. The bottom line is they're widely despised and nothing is going to change that now.

Since the Lakers are the only team right now that's arguably hated more than the Spurs, I'm curious to know: which team are people who are not fans of either San Antonio or LA rooting for? Mr. Bawful, who are you hoping your Celtics face in the Finals if they get past Detroit?

Blogger Basketbawful said...
DM -- Note that when I refer to "overreactive Spurs fans," I'm talking mostly about the people who are resorting to cussing at me and sending me "I hope you die" emails offline. I wish there was only one comment that hit me the wrong way, but there were, in fact, several...most of which weren't really fit to print here. (They would have been okay for a snuff porn Web site, perhaps.) Maybe I should have clarified that up front, but I was on a roll.

As for the rest...

First, you should know by now that I would have tagged ANYBODY who did what Horry did, if only because West had an injured back and that's where he got hit. The fact that Horry had a history was beside the point, but worth noting in my opinion.

The fact that the fouls are iffy remains my opinion. And sure, other people could obviously see them as fouls when I do not, since the entire nature of officiating -- whether by fans or the refs themselves -- seems to be entirely arbitrary. But my vantage point is skewed by the fact that there have been much harder hits delivered with no whistle in the WAS-CLE series, the ATL-BOS series, the CLE-BOS series, the UTH-LAL series and even the SAS-NOH series. Which is supposed to be "playoff basketball," right? Until someone flops, apparently. Which bugs me. Inconsistent officiating bugs me, and we've seen a lot of it during these playoffs...although, despite what some people think, I'm actually trying not to point it out every time I see it. Which tends to be every game.

And as I think I noted to you before, and this was the whole point of my "Eat Crow" post, I don't really point out each flop that happens in the NBA because, damn, that would take forever. My beef with that particular sequence was the successive flops and how it changed the game. I mean, they say the players are supposed to decide the games, but in that case, the flops did.

I think the Hack-A-Thing does hurt the sport from the standpoint that fans hate it and it makes games borderline unwatchable. That's bad for the sport.

The Duncan face is annoying. I hate it. And, like flopping, it gives pro athletes the appearance of being whining crybabies. Go back and watch, for instance, the 1981 Eastern Conference Finals or the 1984 NBA Finals. Guys were taking contact and bodies were flying (not flopping), and almost nobody reacted (except James Worthy and Kareem). I loved that. I hate the Duncan faciness we have today. But it equates to wins, as the Spurs have shown.

I understand how you can love the Spurs anyway. This isn't about our discussion, DM. As I explained, I've gotten borderline death threats over my feelings regarding the "charges" that border on lunacy. Which is fine, I'll absorb the criticism; but I'll also respond to it, too.

I've always been cool with debates and arguments. Which is why, as long as people aren't wishing me HIV or cussing up a storm, I don't censor comments or ignore them (although, sadly, I can't answer every one; sorry 'bout that). But there are things I feel strongly about, and when I feel them, I'm going to express them. That's the point of my blog. Even if it means I have to attack guys I love, like Larry Bird, or teams I grudginly admire, like the Spurs.

Not sure if I covered all the points. This damn comment box is way too small.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
really you say he singles out spurs but, really who was playing last night and may 15th? LOL Spurs and NOH, which commenters were commenting at those times? Spurs and NOH fans (and others)

who else is he suppose to write about? seriously you fanatics need to stop whining about people pointing at the ugly side of sports when it's the site's directive to point out the ugly side of sports

if you wanna read about all the glory that is your team go find a team blog site

Anonymous Anonymous said...
"what is really funny about everything you write about the spurs "issues" is how it's pretty much just media-types, bloggers, and other non-spurs fans who talk about all this stuff."


Anonymous Anonymous said...
It might look like Basketbawfull is complaining a lot about the Spurs, but c'mon, the only teams he could talk about the past week were Cavs, C's, Hornets, Spurs, Lakers and Jazz. You can't really tell anything bad about the other teams... altough I would have like him to mention Anderson Varejao flopping. Anyways, I hope Basketbawfull will not change the way it's writing it's articles, I really enjoy them.

Blogger TradeBait said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
At least the Spurs only rape the spirit and letter of the rules.

Kobe actually raped a real person in Colorado.

If you are a Spurs fan or a Lakers fan, you are a bad person.


Anonymous Anonymous said...
Funny how you rip on "Christastrophe" and proceed to launch into a diatribe against the Spurs and their alleged dirty play, thus proving his point. Also funny that we could have been watching the same series, because I saw one guy on the court whose constant flopping, poor sportsmanship and dirty play clearly stood out above the rest. I think you know who I mean. (hint: he plays for the Hornets)

Anonymous Anonymous said...
I think all these Spurs fans need to stop slobbin on Bob's knob and get a life.. it's called an opinion, and everyone's entitled to one. It's just that most of the modern world thinks that your team is full of cheating pieces of dog shit. Have a nice life!

Anonymous Anonymous said...
When your on top (The Spurs) Its much easier for the people at the bottom to make you a target. This is probably why the Spurs are getting so much flak. If they weren't winning so much, there wouldn't be such a big fuss about the way they play. And if everybody hated the Spurs so much, why does every other team in the NBA including the Hornets pattern themselves on the template provided by the Spurs?

I think the Spurs fans will stop threatening Mr. Bawful if he would just admit his bias against the Spurs. Its kinda hard to sing praises for a team and then make a u-turn to ridicule them. Make a stand either you hate the Spurs or not. Admitting that you are a Suns nuthugger wouldn't hurt as well. Its fine to bash the Spurs as long as we know you really hate them. We've been getting that for years from Suns fans. Its another thing to give out this false aura of being partisan when in fact you are not. You do a worse job at it than Bill Simmons. At least he makes it known that he is a true Celtic nuthugger.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Mr. Bawful,

As an Ohio State alumnus who now lives in the Pacific Northwest, I know what it's like to be bombarded with hate-filled comments about your basketball/football/hockey/beer-pong team.

The fact is this: if people hate your team, it's probably because they're GOOD- so when people say,"Ohio State fu@&ing sucks b@((s and Tressel's sweater vest is f*&^%g g@y", I smile and say ,"Thank you very much!"

If people disliking your team because they WIN bothers you (cough-spurs fans-cough), then maybe you are confused about what it means to be a fan.

This is not the Spanish Inquisition people- it's OK for others to like other teams and dislike your team. You Spurs fans don't need to "convert" everybody else. Are you all Jehovah's Witnesses in your spare time? Do you go knocking on doors to try and convert the infidels to see the light of Duncan-Facery?

Anyway, I would like to say something else here- I don't like 2 Spurs: Parker and Bowen. Everybody else, even Rob Horry, I cheer for most of the time. And Manu may have done a lot of flopping in the past, but he does not get nearly as many calls as he used to and I don't see him flopping as much anymore. I think he has toned it down to a more respectable level. Just my opinion.

Since there is nobody left in the playoffs that I actually like remaining, I say: GO CELTICS! Championship piggybackers are so much more pathetic when their teams lose (see: Karl Malone the Laker), and I don't want Ray Allen to go out like another sucker.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Let me start by saying I'm a Spurs fan. I hate that they are hated but based on each individuals perspective they have their reasons (rational and irrational). I don't mind flopping for example because I see it every NBA game I watch and I expect it from those players that get a lot of FT attempts. As a Spurs fan I guess some are upset since their team seems singled out for attack even though that isn't the case. It's easy to feel that since the Spurs generally play 100 games a season almost, compared to my Pacers (fav team) getting 82. The fact that they are good only adds to what many consider overexposure on TV. Question (not to you Basketbawful but others) some say the Spurs are boring so they don't watch, are these same people saying they are dirty too? If you dont watch how do you know?
I don't think they are a dirty team, but Bowen has a rep. Does anyone think Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Finely, Barry, Udoka are dirty? Horry is boderline but not consistently dirty from what I see. Thomas used to be w/NY but less now.
Back to flopping quickly. Some of the Spurs are actually good at flopping and some hate that. Other good floppers:AI(he's small it sells), DWade(he got a commercial deal for falling he's the US Tony Parker), Lebron(not really but he's learning), Nash, Raja, CP3(work in progress), Dirk, Gasol, D Fisher, Sasha V, Corey Brewer(nah, he just gets pushed around), Kevin Martin(sometimes), of course TP and Manu. I've started to think its just funny, maybe you will reach that point too. Watch some soccer flops on youtube, great stuff. Oh, love this site whether you hate the Spurs or not, look forward to reading everyday so keep it up. And do some more on pick-up ball, thats how I found this last year.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
The funny thing about some of these comments, both anonymous and otherwise, is that they keep asking me to admit I'm biased against the Spurs. Which I am...insofar as I'm biased against anybody who exhibits behaviors I don't like.

Take Evil Ted, who sometimes posts here. He shows up 40 minutes late to work every day and he's the kind of guy who would stash a beer in his pocket so he wouldn't have to buy on at a bar. I hate those things about him, and I let him know about it (more often, I warrant, than he'd like). But he's still a close friend.

"I saw one guy on the court whose constant flopping, poor sportsmanship and dirty play clearly stood out above the rest. I think you know who I mean. (hint: he plays for the Hornets)."

Tell you what. Put together a video compiliation that clearly displays said player's constant flopping and dirty play from this series, and I'll post it on the site.

And Flip, don't worry: Nothing's going to change here.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
tradebait -- Don't worry. I have more pickup posts on the ready for the post-season, as well as some other goodies. I just have to save the content until after the Finals, otherwise I won't have much to write about in those lonely, non-NBA months.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Just to be clear I have never read anything saying you hate the Spurs, just their tactics which is fine. I have HATED (past tense over it now) teams for far less rational reasons examples: Celtics (the color green, Kendrick Perkins angry face), Blazers (for losing that game to the Lakers you know the one and not going on to lose to the Pacers in the finals), Heat (not even sure why, oh Antoine Walker), almost went back to my old ways w/ N.O. with David West and CP3 scowling all over the court. I love intensity but for some reason I hate seeing guys with the angry face, but I can tolerate guys with the Duncan face, strange. In fact I was playing just yesterday and...

Blogger Basketbawful said...
tradebate -- "...Blazers (for losing that game to the Lakers you know the one and not going on to lose to the Pacers in the finals)..."


Blogger Unknown said...

I think this charter operator deserves delayed worst of the night honors for giving the Spurs a shitty plane. I can't sleep in an airplane seat and I'm on 6'. How the hell could a bunch of 7 footers do it?

Blogger Ed said...
Wow, your site was a lot more fun when it was funny.

Go to your happy place in your mind, dude, or go sit in D-Wade's mom's church until you feel better. Maybe have a beer until your panties get untwisted. Intone along with Charles Barkley: I am a dumb*ss, then laugh.

Jeez, don't defend yourself. Nobody cares. Get off your high horse. Get back to making Larry Hughes cry, and Sasha Vujacic weep.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
I just hate the team's fanbases and sometimes the players

like KG's, and paul pierces chest smacking. i mean seriously stop. I know it feels good to win but it's not the championship CALM DOWN!! lol

Spurs fans cheering HORRY after he knocks down west. if Atlanta fans did that when TJ went down, I suggest they don't come to toronto with hawks shirts

lakers fans unusual love for kobe. yes it's unusual to love someone that verbally puts down you. humiliates you. and voices his desire to leave you. only to suddenly come back with a complete 180 in personality when you making 7 figures a year.

Bruce Bowen

and a bunch of others

anyways I have Boston winning it all cuz they can I shoulda bet on lakers too but I wasn't too sure how fast pau gasol would integrate into triangle offence. I knew he was a good fit. mobile passing mid-range/posting big man similiar to Bosh (cept bosh jump shoots too much)

Blogger Unknown said...
@ everyone sucks: Thanks for letting me know that, I, as a Laker fan, inherently suck. That's good to know. I've been wondering that for so long now, but haven't had the time to figure it out recently because I've been busy finishing finals and papers for school, so, really, thanks for the heads up. I'll try to remember that I, and the rest of Lakers and Spurs fans are inherently terrible people for liking the sports teams we do when I'm at Staples watching both teams square off tomorrow.

And to the Spurs fans complaining about your team getting no love (and to Lakers fans too), stop worrying about it and embrace the hate. Trying to convert other people into being happy for your team, or whatever, doesn't work and just makes the fans of the Spurs/Lakers seem even more whiney and/or annoying than others already think (mostly thanks to the idiot bandwagon jumpers for our teams who trash talk and whine and are generally morons).

Also, as for Horry's reputation as a cheap-shot artist, I seem to remember some questionable elbows thrown during his Lakers days and that whole attempted bite/fracas situation with Stackhouse and the Mavs two years ago where he got suspended for a game or two. So, maybe his reputation is a little deserved - the guy is clearly no angel.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
eh...cp3 flops/exaggerates contact as much as anybody. and a lot of teams are win by any means necessary...as the spurs. they're just less good at it.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
"Thomas used to be [dirty] w/NY but less now." - Tradebait

Dude, EVERYONE is dirty with the Knicks. It's in their contract. Unfortunately for them right now, Isiah couldn't even coach that.

Spurs fans suck.
Lakers fans blow.
Knicks fans are scabs. And there is no form of life lower than that of a scab.

Blogger Wild Yams said...
Mr. Bawful, this has all gone too far off course today. I meant to mention earlier that Charles Barkley probably shoulda been included in the WOTN for a couple things last night. First for his very unintentionally funny bit with EJ about his gambling. Not only was it just really weird to see those two all alone on the set trying to have a serious moment (especially with Barkley's glaringly white sneakers and socks to go with his suit), but Barkley said he was never going to gamble again, which he immediately clarified to mean "in the next year or two." That was priceless, and so was EJ trying to bait him into breaking it by saying "wanna bet?" Inside the NBA is the wrong place for serious talk like that from the Chuckster, I'm afraid.

Chuck's second big gaffe was saying that this Laker team is the best one Kobe's ever been on, although him saying that was totally worth it for Webber's fantastic reaction of wanting to walk off the set in disbelief. I love how Barkley shoots from the hip like that and doesn't think through the things he's about to say (see above), because every now and then he'll let fly with a Bill Walton-esque bit of hyperbole like that. God bless Barkley :)

Blogger Basketbawful said...
yams -- You're absolutely right. I updated the post in your honor. I'll try to stay on track in the coming days. ;)

Anonymous Anonymous said...
OMG... get ready for some wild discussions after every WotN that includes anything from the Lakers-Spurs series...
Spurs fans have proven to be as annoying as Lakers fans... IF that's really possible!

Blogger Wild Yams said...
TBG, not so fast. This rash of Spursfan whining is on par with Lakerfan whining, but come on, Lakerfans have been whining like this for far, far longer, and in many more places around the web. Anyone who read the myriad of MVP debates all over the blogosphere the last 4 months or so wouldn't be so quick to put anyone else on par with that level of whining.

Mr. Bawful, don't worry, it wasn't you that went off course, this thread was just hijacked by the Waaahmbulance.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
you need to stop letting these comments get to you, no one wants to read about your personal beef on the homepage

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Wow. Three points:

1- Who ever knew there were that many Spurs fans to piss off?

2- People, it's a blog. If Basketbawful wants to be "biased" against the Spurs, it's his right. There is no obligation to have some sort of journalistic impartiality when you're writing about "the worst of professional basketball".

3- Am I the only person in the world that only started liking the Spurs now that they're a "dirty team"?

I mean, back in the day it was all Avery praying and the Admiral being an example for youth and Timmy being so Big and Fundamental. Back in the day, the Spurs were BORING, in a goody-two-shoes kind of way.

Now? The Duncan Face, Cheap Shot Rob, Bruce "Lee" Bowen, ManuFlop, Tony Longoria, Coach Vader.

This is awesome. The Spurs now have a personality. I for one was rooting for them to beat the Hornets not in spite of their bad rep but BECAUSE of their nastyness. Anyone with me?

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Thanks for replying, Bawful. We'll have to agree to disagree on some things, but I really can't condone what some of the idiots here are posting.

I guess that's the price you pay when you're a popular blogger. Regardless, thanks for writing and sharing.

Blogger geremy said...
honestly i think most basketball fans have a soft spot for the spurs... of years past. i can even recall being elated when david and timmy got their first trophy after being a huge fan of tim in college and being absolutely sure he would end up being one of the greatest centers ever (don't get me started on the forward thing! i think the rockets should go back and designate thorpe the teams center so hakeem could be the greatest power forward ever!) and basketbawful, please get this right, while timmy may have made the duncan face famous, it was MANU that brought it to them! manu is like a disease the ruined the spurs legacy from the inside out, or should i say from the left side in, because we all know manu can't do ANYTHING with his right, he's like zoolander in an ami-turner sense. can you or anyone for that matter imagine timmy pulling the stuff he does daily now back on the team with the admiral??? david would have beat him privately in the locker room and buried him at sea (because he's respectful like that ;) ), career over! nope, timmy was fantastic and respectable till manu rubbed off on him.

now, with bowen. my problem with bowen is not so much how he plays as it is how he hides it. every spurs fan, when met with the dirty bowen accusations proclaims that raja is just as dirty... and they're right to a point, but raja has never tried to hide it. when he took out kobe he admitted it was dirty and said he would do it all over again. he never said it was an accident, or that his arm got "tangled playing good defense", he openly admitted his deeds, unlike bowen who to this day insists that his ninja style karate kicks to jump shooters faces is unintentional! simply put, man up.

lastly, with horry, no suns fan or any basketball fan with good mind has been a fan of his since his childish antics while playing for phoenix in the 90's. he AND sam cassell ruined any dignity they had then and horry has simply made it worse over time by substituting his moderate skill and pathetic work ethic for 5 quick fouls, cheap tactics and 12 min of playing time per season. horry has so many rings because he won't play for a team unless he can ride them to a trophy, just ask ainge.

i'm done. hope my rant is coherent. and for those that think the hate is because you win, then why do those that HATED jordan's bulls still admire what they accomplished. no one questions a jordan, bird, or magic ring... why is that???

Anonymous Anonymous said...
"manu is like a disease the ruined the spurs legacy from the inside out, or should i say from the left side in, because we all know manu can't do ANYTHING with his right, he's like zoolander in an ami-turner sense. can you or anyone for that matter imagine timmy pulling the stuff he does daily now back on the team with the admiral??? david would have beat him privately in the locker room and buried him at sea (because he's respectful like that ;) ), career over! nope, timmy was fantastic and respectable till manu rubbed off on him."

I just like to quote people when they're being huge idiots. Thanks for the opportunity.

I'm pretty sure most [Suns] fans had a soft spot for the Spurs... of years past. Mostly because they didn't win championships and didn't kick a certain team out of the playoffs year after year, exposing a big trade that condemns them to irrelevancy for years for the desperation move that it was.

You really do your fellow Suns fans credit.

Oh, and you know why no one seems to hate Jordan's Bulls any more? Because they're gone.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Don Paco -

Bravo. I don't necessarily agree because I think their nasty is diluted by vaginitis (Duncanface & flopping), but I agree that having some personality is good.

I have to admit though, I always got a kick out of watching Mild Mannered Admiral get fiesty and put up fat numbers against some great opponents. You could see how repressed he was.

Blogger geremy said...
uh, manu can't go right.

duncan was quiet when he played with david.

and for the record, while i loved the suns of 92-93, i never thought chicago used cheap tactics to win that final, ever. and while i don't mind saying that the spurs of today are champions, doing so with such a worthless tarnished image is not needed.

some may be a fan of basketball turning into the world cup, but really if that's what you want, go watch soccer.

all absurd opinion i know, geeze where do i get this stuff?!

Blogger moto said...
I know this is ridiculously late, but I just came across this thread.

As a close personal friend of Christastrophe (at least spell the man's name right), thank you for this.

The amount and degree to which he has gotten under your skin has earned him at least free beer for the first two rounds of the playoffs next year.