Indy Matt

A reader named indyjones1024 tried to drop the whammy on me in today's When is a flop a flop? post. Here's what he had to say:

"Here's my definition: In basketball, a 'flop' occurs when a clearly biased observer (read: basketbawful) overreacts to an embelishment [sic] of routine physical contact displayed by a player of the team the observer unabashedly dislikes (read: Spurs or Lakers), during a basketball game in which said team in [sic] competeing. A 'mental' or, some might say, 'moral' flop is committed when said observer fails to acknowledge, let alone denounce, examples of flopping committed by the teams he favors (read: Hornets or Suns), choosing instead to endlessly harp on those examples that 'prove' his bias against certain teams (read: Spurs and Lakers) is justified. This is often accompianied by photo graphic 'evidence' that proves his assertions."

I responded to this comment by creating yet another new term: The "critic flop." This happens when a quibbler tries to censure someone else's (read: my) opinion without providing specific examples of similar skulduggery (read: wholesale flop-a-paloozas by one of "my teams").

I also issued Mr. 1024 the following challenge, and I'm opening it up to everybody else who reads this site: Find an example in which either the Hornets or Suns were on the receiving end of multiple flop-style offensive fouls in a single minute -- or even a couple of minutes -- during a critical stretch of a crucial home playoff game. And the calls should put two of the opposing team's best players in foul trouble.

If anybody can do that, then I hereby promise to write a special post all about it, crediting my vanquisher and apologizing for my unforgivably biased rhetoric.

Okay. This is everybody's one-time chance to make me eat crow. Good luck.

Rules and restrictions: Entries where evidence is cited as "I remember this one time when..." will not be accepted. Winning entries must have some manner of verifiable evidence (video, AP recap, play-by-play, game log, etc.). Entries must meet the criteria described above because the incidents in last night's Hornets-Spurs game precipitated the discussion. Also note that I will not get into a semantic argument with entrants. As long as each play displays "an embelishment of routine physical contact," I will deem it an acceptable flop.

Note: The graphic accompanying this post is not indyjones1024. It is, in fact, a picture of yours truly rocking an Indiana Jones costume last Halloween. You might not be able to tell, but those are movie-accurate clothes and props, including Indy's vintage British Mark VII gas mask bag. And just in case you're wondering: Yes, I will be wearing this costume, plus the leather jacket, when I go see Indy IV next week. [/geeking]

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31 Comments:
OpenID indyjones1024 said...
Ok, here's the thing. I'm not going to attempt to live up to your challenge, because as you and I both know, its something only Hollinger or the guy who run 82games would waste that much time on. Not to mention I'm at work and its almost 5. Now, you're able to vividly recall the Spurs' "cluster-flop" because it happened last night, not because it was some eternally-egregious miscarriage of justice that will be talked about years later, with the clarity of events like the Willis Reed game or the Flu Game.

I know my objectivity as a Spurs fan can only go so far, but believe it or not, I too roll my eyes in disgust whenever Oberto staggers back out of traffic under the basket, or Tony sprawls out on the floor like he's birthing a hippo. I can admit that the Spurs do flop. I also know people flop against the Spurs, as the two examples I offered to you in the other post demonstrated. In the Suns series, I can recall back to back offensive fouls called on Manu and Tim in game 1, as a result of Steve Nash sliding under them and getting knocked down. Seems like that's the only defense he played against us the entire series. In game 2, 400 lb Shaq, of all people, did the same, and drew an offensive foul on Tim. The Nash plays were in a critical portion of the third quarter, and gave the Suns extra possessions, and also put Tim in some foul trouble (two of our guys fouled out of that game, if you'll recall), while stealing the momentum we had up to that point.

Dispite those calls, and others, going against us, I realize that the flops balance out over time, and outside of freak examples like the Detroit-Orlando game last week, games are hardly ever won or lost on the discretion of an official. You play hard, you win. You make mistakes, excuses, or just flat-out stink, you usually lose. The Hornets are a great team, and if they are the future of the league, then its in good hands. And yes, they do flop during games. But when that happens, I just shake my head and let it go, and hope our guys can get a stop on defense.

Anyways, I love your site and visit it everyday, despite my mixture of bemusement and indignation with the things you say about my team. Maybe we can discuss Indy IV next week instead.

Blogger daniel_blackmon said...
I am not a contestant, and I agree with everything you say about the Sp*rs flopping (I am a Lakers fan.) That being said, I thought I would point out that the first round series between the Suns and the Sp*rs was one of the floppiest ever. I can recall several three-way-flops (flops where both the offensive player defensive player AND a bystander hit the deck). I will look for some video because many of them were hilarious. The Suns and the Spurs looked like bowling pins playing basketball.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Sorry for the unrelated post: but for God's sake, you have to post on this: http://deadspin.com/5009149/stephon-marbury-is-into-the-wild

Blogger Wild Yams said...
While we're waiting for this challenge to be answered, can we use this space to discuss whether the new Indy film looks any good, or which Indy film is the best so far or any other Indy-related topics? I'll just say this: I hate that they renamed the first movie Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Arc just for the damn DVD packaging. That's as bad as going back and renaming Star Wars as Episode IV: A New Hope.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
indy -- You know what the origin of my seeming "bias" against the Spurs is? The fact that they have been one of my favorite teams since the days of the Admiral, who's in my top seven players ever. I loves me some David Robinson, and I don't care about what Hakeem did to him in '95. I really don't.

Anyway, I think that in many ways the Spurs are the model of what I want a team to be, from ownership on down...except that some of their "winning tactics" -- the excessive flopping, Bowen's dirty tricks, Eva's admission that TP fakes injuries, Duncan's eye-goggling -- are all things I utterly despise about the sport. And, frankly, it seems worse to me when one of my favorite teams does it. It's like when Meat Loaf released that shitty Bat out of Hell III even though Jim Steinman tried to sue him to stop it. When my hero, or heroes, do things I don't like, I find it personally embarrassing. Like what Larry Bird has presided over in Indiana.

Take the Suns. My favorite team, right? But there have been so many times I busted on D'Antoni, or Nash's wandering defense, or Amare's inability to stay in front of someone, or even Raja's flopping. But Suns fans, rather than getting angry, usually just sigh and say, "You're right." And Spurs and Lakers fans, well, they certainly don't argue.

But when I bust on those teams for my various beefs, I'm someone targetting them alone. But, frankly, I think I have a pretty good track record for busting on pretty much everybody. Hence the whole "Basketbawful" thing.

Anyway, I'd love to discuss Indy IV next week. My email is on the page.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Nobody can out-flop the Spurs...Nooooooooooooooooooooooobody!!!

OpenID indyjones1024 said...
That has given me a new perspective on your comments, then. I also started watching the Spurs during the Admiral era, and its been interesting to see our transition from a "Soft Team who will never win a title" to a "Dirty Team who won't stop winning titles, ^%#@$*%#@!!!") I can't, and won't, defend some of the things Bowen does, and I'm part of a large contingent of Spurs fans who wish Horry had hung it up 3 years ago after his shot against Detroit. Regardless, I still love Timmy and Manu, and Tony to a lesser extent, because they epitomize the kind of guy I want to be: Hard-working, tenacious, humble, make-no-excuses, go home at the end of the day knowing you did your best, blah blah blah and all that. These are the principles of the Robinson/Duncan Spurs, and I'm an enemy of anyone who tries to undermine that (including Horry and Bowen, if they do, in fact, try to injure people).

And yeah, I can only hope that Spielberg, Lucas, and Indy himself don't do to that franchise what Bird has done to the Pacers.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Let me be the first to break the silence on the topic we all seem to be skirting:

That costume is COOL-

And I mean like, Billy Dee Williams in "Return of the Jedi" smooth-cool, not Styles from "Teen Wolf" pseudo-cool.

Maybe it's the angle of the picture, but I don't see the bull-whip. And you need a short asian side-kick or a helpless female who always needs rescuing to really fill out the ensemble. Some Nazi henchmen would be cool too, but you should be able to find some of those, being that you live in the midwest and all :P

Nicccccce!

Anonymous Al James said...
I was Indiana Jones for last Halloween. What a co-ink-i-dink.

Blogger Liston said...
You're white? I am so disappointed.

Liston the non-caucasian

Blogger Basketbawful said...
anonymous -- The bull whip is there. Look below my left arm (on the right side of the picture). There's a light brown handle. Yeah, I spent so much money on the clothes (which came from a British costume maker) and leather products, and the gas mask bag, that I went cheap on the whip (an authentic Indy-style whip would have set me back two to three hundred dollars). I'm still looking for my Asian sidekick. Funny story, though. I was out at a club with some girl friends of mine, and some random dude came by and, in a Short Round voice, said, "No time for love, Doctah Jones!" Good times.

al james -- No shite? Okay, dude: Pictures, please.

liston -- Yeah. Sorry 'bout that. But I'm multi-colored on the inside.

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Anonymous Emma said...
I thought I'd send you one of those image snafus you love so much: http://i26.tinypic.com/2eozepd.jpg

Uh, yeah, the Jazz could've used his help tonight, actually.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
But, in a time when the "shorter" guys like lebron, AI and ... well almost everyone is allowed to travel (resulting in crazy dunks), shouldn't the bigs be allowed to flop a little? For example, there's no way a guy like shaq is going to hit the deck, but that doesn't mean people aren't charging against him. What can he do? In that case, flopping seems fine. And with the refs being horrible, do you really blame the players for flopping? I blame refs. If they were good, I don't see flopping being that popular.

Blogger Sam said...
Short Round still lives in L.A. I had dinner with him and a mutual friend last year. Super nice guy, trying to make it as a Director these days. It took a lot of booze but just before we went our seperate ways I finally got him to say "No time for love, Doctah Jones!" Good times.

Anonymous Christien said...
I know it doesn't equal all your overly-specfic criteria, but here's a great video of shaq flopping in the first round for the Suns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q4ZD6GiwxA

Anonymous Karl said...
I thought this was HILARIOUS
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/8612/picture1yr9.png

Check out the e-bay listings on the right corner, including the Kapono autograph for one cent.

Blogger Adam said...
Everybody flops baby, gotta get that edge any way you can. The thing that bothers me about Duncan is the whole eyes bugged out, arms in the air, hands open pleading to the Gods for mercy look that he has after he OBVIOUSLY fouled someone. I know, everybody else does it too, I just seem to notice it more when he does it.

/flops

Anonymous Jonny Drama said...
basketbawful - Did you see the Celtics game last night? What did you think of the officiating there? I swore Lebron shuffled his feet on at least 3 occasions, but maybe that's just me.

And for Indiana Jones remakes, all I can ask is if anyone has seen the South Park episode where Lucas and Spielberg digitally re-master all of their movies. If you have, then please let me know if the new Indiana Jones has a bunch of Ewoks and walkie talkies instead of machine guns.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Duke's Greg Paulus flop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqPBJ_6y_5A

Anonymous charles said...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TaRdBpxfrw

Blogger BadDave said...
That IS a coi-ink-i-dink. Last year I played the comedic, fat friend of Herr Jones that bailed him out of trouble. (Read: I got him home and put his head over a toilet)

Blogger Liston said...
Wait a minute, that's a "costume"? You mean that's not how all white people dress? Well you learn something new everyday.

Liston

Anonymous Anonymous said...
i'm not sure what "make basketbawful some eat crow" means. what is "some eat crow"? i'm confused.

Blogger Melvin said...
whohoo.... nice argument~!

Anonymous stones4life said...
Yea the "Duncan face" is so rediculous, it's like he feels he's entitled to calls just cause. At least when Sheed does it it's so outlandish you can't help but laugh. Duncan just pisses me off. "You know that ball ain't gonna lie"

This comment has absolutely nothing to do with this post, but I know you're a Celtics fan, so... HOLY FUCKING SHIT.

I just burst into tears at the final buzzer -- so overwhelmed, I just didn't know how else to react.

Bring it on, Pistons!!

Anonymous james said...
NO TIME FO LOVE DOCTA JONES hahahhahahhahahahah great comment post

Anonymous JR said...
I know the king travelling is not anything new to anyone here, but when did we start celebrating this shit? It pisses me off he just runs at the basket, we don't have to make the ref's missed calls a highlight...

Anonymous Wormboy said...
Hey man, don't even get me started on the charge they called on Pierce near the end of game 6. I nearly peed blood.

LOLZ at the Paulus flop. Since I live in NC, I've seen that several times. BEST FLOP EVER. If he ever gets an NBA contract, it will be much lighter because of that single play {NBA scouts note to self: can't flop worth a damn}

Which brings me to this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fYOgC2Qbqh4

Oh, and the best thing is that came out a year AFTER the "this is why you suck" Dook bashing video. As you can maybe tell, Dook ranks third in my bandwagon-teams-that-I-hate list: #1 The Yankees
#2 The Lakers
#3 Dook




Oh, and on topic. Couldn't agree with you more. I love the Spurs work ethic, I was a big Admiral fan, Pop is a great coach, and Timmy is the best 4 ever. But the flopping makes me sick and the dirty play makes me nauseous. I just can't get past that.

That said, I'd rather see Starbury get a trophy than kobe get #4.

Anonymous Chistastrophe said...
I eagerly await whatever bullshit response Basketbawful has for the Spurs resounding victory tonight. Perhaps the Spurs employed some special kind of flop that allows their bench players to drain three pointers. Maybe they flopped so hard it forced CP3 to choke in the biggest game of his life. Or maybe, just maybe, the Spurs are really really good at playing basketball.

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