Nets Pacers Basketball
Jim O'Brien waves goodbye to showing up on this blog for the rest of the season

Last day of January, and one more step toward warmer weather, which means players on crappy teams are already thinking about getting new grips for their golf clubs. They'll have plenty of free time come the playoffs.

Courtesy of The Onion, here's some invaluable advice for Shaq (audio NSFW). (h/t Jonah Keri)


You mean a diet of bacon and Krispy Kremes won't help someone lose weight?


Worst of the Weekend in Pictures:

63241839110131_05
"Yeah, my balls are big... they're so big, I have to sit on the bench most of the game"


Magic Bulls Basketball
"JJ, don't tell the guys, but I'm making a Taco Bell run at halftime. You want anything?"


63241217
"Aww man... I wanted some Taco Bell too, Coach!!"


Celtics Suns Basketball
"Damn, something stinks! Must be my vagina again"


Grizzlies 76ers Basketball
The kind of action you would expect from a Grizzlies/Sixers game


Nuggets Cavaliers Basketball
Sad Cavs bench photos are starting to remind me of the Sad Nyets bench photos from last year...


Nationally Televised Games:
Nuggets at Nyets, NBA TV, 7pm: Could we see an owner-level revenge game?? The Prokhorov is upset with how the talks fell through and Carmelo isn't going to be donning a Nyets uniform any time soon. Will he find a way to motivate his players to crush the Nuggets and Melo in response?

Of course I'm just talking out my ass and this game is fairly meaningless and will probably be boring. Unless, naturally, you choose to play the Melo in NJ Drinking Game! (Note: this blog is not responsible for any potentially fatal alcohol poisoning you may suffer by participating)

All the Other Games:
Craptors at Pacers, 7pm: Dead Coach Bounce alert! Dead Coach Bounce alert! They're gonna bounce like the rollerblading Craptors' mascot's face bounces off the floor.

Cavaliers at Heat, 7:30pm: I think we officially can stop caring about Cleveland revenge games against LeBron James, right? I mean, 20 consecutive losses (TWENTY!!!) should pretty well obliterate those thoughts.

Magic at Grizzlies, 8pm: The Care Bears are sitting exactly where I expected them to: just barely south of the .500 mark. This somehow feels appropriate and right, doesn't it?

Wizards Generals at Mavericks, 8:30pm: As noted by ESPN's Jon Buccigross: "Cleveland carries a 20-game losing streak and 23-game road losing streak into Miami tonight. the Wizards take 0-23 road record to Dallas." It's kind of sad that the Cavs streak diminishes the attention the Generals deserve. This is an impressive level of sucktitude that should be recognized. And that's why we're here. You're welcome.

Bobcraps at Jazz, 9pm: Deron Williams is banged up, and the Jazz are in the middle of a severe funk. Losses to the Generals, Nyets, Sixers, and Timberpoops in that stretch, and most recently they only dropped 81 on Golden State. The Warriors! Isn't that rock bottom??

Bucks at Clippers, 10:30pm: The Bucks have regained some credibility and are riding a 3-game winning streak. The Clippers are on a 13-7 run. What alternate universe have I stepped into??

Labels:

43 Comments:
OpenID printf.net said...
Hey, been reading since last year:

"Damn, something stinks! Must be my vagina again"

I know that approximately the entire sporting world thinks that women are worthy of ridicule and the best way to make fun of a male sports player is to announce that he's as physically and emotionally useless as a *woman*, but it would be awesome if you could set a higher bar for yourself than that.

(I don't think I want to get into a long discussion about this, so if people start talking about how it's totally reasonable and not at all misogynist to talk like this, I think I'll bow out of the conversation and stop reading the blog. Just letting you know.)

Blogger Dan B. said...
I know that approximately the entire sporting world thinks that women are worthy of ridicule and the best way to make fun of a male sports player is to announce that he's as physically and emotionally useless as a *woman*

Really? Really??? Do people actually think this???? Jesus Christ... Way to extrapolate that one waaay out there. Unless the men I know are by some coicidence all on the absolute fringe of society, this isn't the way the vast majority of men think.

How often have you seen me write any actual hateful comments about women and their worth in society or their status as human beings? Never, because I don't think that way. I don't automatically make an association to that when making a joke. So I'm sorry if you truly were offended, but wow. It's just a joke, I didn't mean anything by it and didn't mean to make it sound offensive to women. IT'S JUST A JOKE.

Anonymous Karc said...
Eddie House got fined 25,000 for that, by the way, despite him doing the exact same thing two nights before in Miami against the Knicks.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-eddie-house-s013111,0,2437645.story

I get the feeling that this was more because it happened on national TV from a game located in the middle of the country, which tends to draw in more angry phone calls about "offensive" and "obscene" gestures than other places.

Anonymous Czernobog said...
Let's just say that Vince is a regular source of discomfort to his owner, and leave it at that.

Blogger Dan B. said...
Karc -- The NBA's officiating and after-the-game penalizing is nothing if not a model of inconsistency at its finest.

Anonymous kazam92 said...
John Hollinger wrote about his All-star reserves and I dont normally love his stuff but I agree wholeheartedly with this

"When it comes to selecting the All-Star reserves, for some reason nobody calls it for what it is: a game for the fans that's been hijacked by the coaches.

I say that because the standard of "pick the best players" has somehow been corrupted into "pick the best players from winning teams." When asked, coaches often offer the viewpoint that the All-Star Game should be a reward for winning; since they're making their picks Monday, I feel compelled to remind them that actually, it's not, and furthermore, there's no reason it should be.

The point of the game is to have the best players in the world compete in an exhibition for the fans. Period. The job of the coaches is to select the best players. Period. It improves neither the process nor the game if we decide to punish good players whose teams happen to be run by idiots, or to reward middling players who have the benefit of playing with great teammates. Look back in history and almost every cringe-inducing All-Star selection has been made because coaches valued playing with good teammates above playing well.

To date, the coaches have received shockingly little criticism for their self-indulgence, but this year we're in a rare situation -- the coaches are in position to make the game a dramatically worse event by following their historic criteria. Sure, there have been past errors -- taking Wally Szczerbiak over Elton Brand in 2005, for instance, was totally indefensible -- but this year they may end up excluding the league's most exciting players for two or three far less entertaining ones."

OpenID printf.net said...
Hi,

So I'm sorry if you truly were offended, but wow. It's just a joke, I didn't mean anything by it and didn't mean to make it sound offensive to women. IT'S JUST A JOKE.

I really was offended; I don't write long comments on blogs for no good reason. :)

I do know that it was just a joke. But it was a joke that is only funny because it puts women down. The jokes we choose to tell each other have power in reinforcing how society treats different groups; I think we've largely recognized this by stopping telling jokes that are funny because they put another race down, but it seems like (especially when it comes to sports) we haven't moved on from sexist jokes yet. I honestly don't see this happening outside of the sports crowd; if I said something like your joke at work, I would -- seriously -- get fired quickly. (I think this is actually pretty reasonable.)

I don't mind to imply that you're a bad or sexist person, by the way -- sorry I didn't make that clear. I just think you're someone who made a sexist joke without thinking about it much, and if you can think in the future about whether a joke's sexist and, if so, why exactly you think it's funny and harmless and worth telling, that would be great. Thanks!

Blogger Dan B. said...
Perhaps that's why I have trouble understanding just how badly offended you are by this -- I personally almost never have any problem with jokes that poke fun at any race, religion, sex, etc. as long as I know the person telling it and know they don't actually mean it. (I do truly believe that indeed a joke sometimes IS just a joke) But I guess you don't always know that with a public blog if you don't personally know the writer, so I guess I'll have to remember that next time.

Blogger Dan B. said...
kazam -- Wow, Hollinger writing something that makes complete and total sense AND doesn't refer to PER? Mark this day, folks. Won't happen again for awhile.

Blogger Will said...
Have been reading for a few years
"Yeah, my balls are big... they're so big, I have to sit on the bench most of the game"
I know you all think elephantiasis is a laughing matter and everything, but it really isn't. Having a giant package isn't glamorous despite what the media portray. Furthermore, the absolute worst treatment for that condition is prolonged inactivity. Please stop spreading misinformation or I may leave and never come back.

Anonymous kazam92 said...
Dan B. agreed. I thought he would use some complex algorithm to tell me why Al Horford is an All-Star.

Anonymous Jerry Vinokurov said...
Hey Dan,

Like printf.net, I read this blog regularly and like that poster I actually also find jokes predicated on comparisons to female anatomy as being offensive. I'm sure you really do mean it as just a joke, but it's just as offensive as, say, using "gay" as an insult. There are plenty of creative ways in which we can mock Vince Carter (a goal which I wholeheartedly support) without resorting to jokes that implicitly put down women.

So yeah. Don't want to get into a huge debate with anyone about this, but since someone already mentioned it, I figured I would chime in in support.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
@printf.net:

I think your initial solution would cause everyone around here fewer headaches.

Stop reading and go away.

Blogger stephanie g said...
Help! Help! I'm being oppressed. Actually there is a fair amount of sexism in the sports sphere, although this example is pretty silly. Most languages use genitalia as insults or as associations to gender norms. Just remember this the next time you think the aggressive man who just cut you off is a dick.

Stacy Paetz was just interviewing Collison after the Indy-Toronto game when Hibbert comes by and smacks his bootie, surprising him. Stacy's response: "You got a dunk AND a pat on the behind by Roy, now that's a winning night right there."

Pacers are about to prove the dead coach theory right once again.

RE: ASG, I'm not an expert on its history or anything but I was under the impression that In Ye Olde Days if there were 2 good players and one was an exciting scorer and one was boring (like a hustle rebound guy who sets picks) the exciting guy would always get picked because the ASG was about making a flashy game for the fans. Dunks and hotdog passes yes! Boxing out your man? Not so much. I think it started to turn in the early '00s.

Blogger Dan B. said...
stephanie g -- "Most languages use genitalia as insults or as associations to gender norms. Just remember this the next time you think the aggressive man who just cut you off is a dick." GREAT example, thank you.

Jerry -- Now that you mention it, several weeks back there was a big argument on Deadspin about Drew Magary saying "that's gay" in an offhand way, and several people got upset and were extremely offended, and several people (like me) blew right past it when reading the original post and never even thought twice about it. Kinda funny how it's an all-or-nothing kind of thing, nobody ever seems to be in the middle.

Will -- I dunno, this episode of South Park makes it look pretty awesome.

Anonymous Czernobog said...
To be fair, I can see how claiming Vince Carter is a woman would be offensive to women.

OpenID printf.net said...
Jerry -- Now that you mention it, several weeks back there was a big argument on Deadspin about Drew Magary saying "that's gay" in an offhand way, and several people got upset and were extremely offended, and several people (like me) blew right past it when reading the original post and never even thought twice about it. Kinda funny how it's an all-or-nothing kind of thing, nobody ever seems to be in the middle.

I don't think it's so difficult to work out why that is. If you're straight and white and male, no-one makes jokes about your subgroup. You are probably on the "nothing" end of the spectrum, because nothing hurts you, so you don't care or empathize when other people get hurt.

Gay people, black people and women that I've talked to have told me that these jokes hurt them. I see no reason to think that they're lying, and not making jokes at their expense seems like a pretty easy request to follow. Why wouldn't I believe them? If I believe them, why would I keep hurting them?

Blogger Jason D said...
I don't think the joke is offensive at all unless your the type of person that is so PC that you feel the need to comment on anything that could be considered offensive to someone. I mean, if you've spent any time on this blog, the relationship between Vince Carter and vaginas has been more than well documented. If it was an joke that seemed out of place and offensive, then I could understand, but it's not. It's a joke making fun of Vince Carter and at the end of the day, by attacking the joke you are, in a way, defending Vince Carter....for shame!

Oh yea, go Lakers! Only one win against a team that can be considered a contender, and even that's arguable! Go complacency!

Anonymous Anonymous said...
So basically what I'm getting from this discussion is that women everywhere are enraged an insulted that anyone would even try and put VC in their league. If Vince isn't even good enough for the WNBA, then what's left? #SadVCFace

Blogger lolikatempika said...
How can you not hate this dude House? I think he tries really hard to be hated, i really do, otherwise i cannot understand his behaviour, going back to boston too, worse guy on that team and boston is the mother of all worst people you could find in basketball, these days. Except allen and rondo that place is filled with the worst human beings in basketball history, turrible people.

Blogger TeamD said...
My god women hate their vaginas :))

Anonymous Stockton said...
I remember Ak's debut at the rookies all-star game... 9 guys running around, shooting from wherever, dunking, going for alley-hoops, behind-the-back-no-look passes, with zero effort and -1 defense. The guy said he was amazed with that kind of "game".
But that's what fans want, maybe...

As for the Vaginagate, I would say there are some people who are really blind, but there might offend the blind(??).

Anonymous Barry said...
I think stephanie g cleared up the matter once and for all.

lolikatempika: I love Eddie House, then again I love Kevin Garnett too despite all the stupid shit he's done. That "better chance of catching Bin Laden" is another example. It's really dickish but I can't help but laugh.

Blogger KHayes666 said...
If any of this blog offends you I say go seek out Greg Ostertag and get his autograph.

You'll feel a lot better

Blogger Hilary said...
I am going to agree with the first commenter.

I don't think any of the men who run this blog are really jerks, sexists, treat their wives/girlfriends badly... of course not. Quite the opposite.

But even knowing that, the amount of "women are stupid and incompetent" imagery has become distracting over the years.

For example, for a while certain teams were being called "bipolar significant other." OK, I can identify. But then it was "bipolar girlfriend." Sigh, but I can overlook it. Then it was "bipolar girlfriend on the rag" every damn say, alongside the usual "Vag Carter" jokes. Also alongside the explanation that men are forced to read Jane Eyre in high school because the teachers want them to be pure, rather than because of its ahead-of-its-time commentary on gender relations and class (which is why the rest of us were told to read it).

The anti-woman jokes get to be less and less funny as the volume goes up and is a huge part of the site every day. Even the "Worst of the Kobe" gag eventually ended.

Anonymous, I respect that this is your own little corner of the net and you can do what you like, and I DID stop commenting and start coming around a lot less. (I turned up the past few days because I wanted to see the comments on the Celtics/Lakers.)

But I wanted to point out that the first commentator has not been the only one who has ever had that thought.

Blogger Dan B. said...
printf.net -- I'm a white heterosexual male, but also I'm from Kentucky, and I don't get all offended when people make the usual jokes about us all being barefoot cousin-marrying hillbillies. Does that count?

If any of this blog offends you I say go seek out Greg Ostertag and get his autograph.

You'll feel a lot better


Of course you'll feel better -- Ostertag is the solution to everything.

Anonymous ttv said...
I like it brother. You rock!

Anonymous Stockton said...
Any guy who makes the big balls dance must pay royalties to SamIam

Blogger Dan B. said...
Hilary -- So you have been unhappy with something we've done for months and you just now bothered to tell us? If we've been upsetting that many people, I'm surprised nobody's complained to us before so we'd know to back it down a little.

(BTW, am I the only person here who has no idea who Jane Eyre is?)

Blogger draftaraujo said...
If you want PC comments regarding sports read the NBA hangtime blogs or watch sport center, or create your own blog, because I would have to agree that 99% of the people who read this blog, would agree calling Vince Carter "Vag Carter" is appropriate.
If you find a particular movie/show/article offensive stop viewing it and move on.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
This is Hilary again-- can't log into my Google account at work.

I didn't comment when I originally thought the women jokes were taking over the site because, well, everyone has a right to run their site the way they'd prefer. On the other end of the spectrum, I also don't complain about another basketball blog not allowing posters to say "damn," which I think is over-censoring but is certainly the owner's choice. Everyone has a different sense of humor... I cracked up at the Magic/Taco Bell captions on this entry. I didn't think it was worth complaining about a personal problem I had with what's obviously a fantastic blog.

I just also didn't want to see printf.net held up as an outlier.

(And yeah, the Jane Eyre conversation was obscure and minor... I just wanted to establish that I actually have been around and didn't come over just to troll you.)

OpenID printf.net said...
Hilary -- So you have been unhappy with something we've done for months and you just now bothered to tell us? If we've been upsetting that many people, I'm surprised nobody's complained to us before so we'd know to back it down a little.

If you upset someone, it is not their responsibility to stand up and declare that they're offended as quickly as possible. As we've seen on the thread, there's usually a backlash where the people who stand up and admit being offended are ridiculed, which is why I said I probably wouldn't respond -- most people would rather just go do something else than start a fight and get insulted.

The problem with going to do something else, though, is that nothing ever changes. I don't have enough energy to start fights every time, but lately I've started to at least tell people about why I'm upset and likely not to stick around. I don't think I have any obligation to do that, though.

Blogger TeamD said...
Get a life why don't you, upset women... men up and enjoy a joke, you wusses.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
I'm late to this thread, but would like to hop in with a few thoughts.

First off, to printf.net and Hilary, I didn't take any of your comments as trolling. In fact, for a blog that gets pretty strong daily readership, we don't really have much of a trolling issue...except when Wild Yams is trolling along on some pro-Lakers tangent.

I keed, Yams, I keed!

I understand where you're coming from. Believe it or not, I (true story) nearly minored in Feminist Studies and tried to start a chapter of Men Against Rape at my college (exactly two people showed up to the first meeting...me and the factulty advisor). And I'm sensitive enough to understand the potential anti-woman insinuation made when we call Vince Carter "Vag Carter."

So...what would you suggest?

I'm asking a serious question, and I'd really like your input. This is a site dedicated to the best of the worst of professional basketball. Fart jokes and penis-related humor abound. Wealthy professional athletes are insulted and dehumanized on a daily basis. What you seem to be telling me is that you're essentially okay with dehumanization as long as it is not sexist.

Where are the lines? What would you consider to be acceptable levels of dehumanization? Again, this is a serious question.

Also, and with all due respect, Hilary, because I know you've been around for quite some time and I do, indeed, value your opinion as a regular reader/contributor, I do not believe that woman jokes have been "taking over" Basketbawful. There are, on average, 2,000-3,000 words (or more) written on this site each day, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that the greatest majority of those words are free of what you and printf.net are identifying as sexist humor.

That's not a defense of the jokes themselves. I just don't believe the quantity is being represented accurately. And, most recently, the only "running" gag has been Vince Carter-themed vagina jokes. Again, I'm not arguing for them, only that the vast abundance you may be sensing isn't as vast as it feels.

Blogger Drake said...
Basketbawful and Dan B.:

I suggest you both to take Hilary's and printf.net's feelings into serious consideration the next time you feel like writing another anti-female joke, lest you suffer the consequences of a massive decline in readership and the subsequent loss in advertisement dollars.

Oh...wait.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
printf.net and Hilary -- If you would prefer to take this discussion out of the comments, feel free to e-mail me at:

basketbawful@yahoo.com

OpenID printf.net said...
Hi Basketbawful, thanks for the fine reply. I agree with everything you said, including the part about how the vast majority of the writing here is awesome is unobjectionable.

Fart jokes and penis-related humor abound. Wealthy professional athletes are insulted and dehumanized on a daily basis. What you seem to be telling me is that you're essentially okay with dehumanization as long as it is not sexist.

Fart jokes aren't jokes that deliberately say "look over there, it's a , let's all laugh at them and share this joke about how superior we are" though -- that's what I object to. We don't need to demean minorities to make good jokes. I would be equally upset about racist or homophobic jokes, so I'm not merely objecting to sexism because it's sexism.

As for why making fun of athletes is okay, I don't pretend to have the answers; it's an interesting question. Certainly, it helps soften the blow that they're all paid millions of dollars to be public figures! It gives us the impression that they've "signed up for it" by accepting their public role. (However, the women who are the implicit targets of the "sand in my vagina" joke certainly didn't.)

Thanks again for the thoughtful reply, I appreciate it.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
USC center Nikola Vucevic, after the loss to Arizona this past weekend, said, "I felt like we played like women today. We weren't aggressive, we didn't handle the ball well, and we were slow." He later apologized.

I don't know. I don't much care for that sort of joke because it is uncouth, but that's part of the character of this site (much of which is entertaining). While there are a lot of women in the world more athletically capable than I, I wouldn't really pretend that the most athletic women are athletically equal to the most athletic men. That seems to be the basic premise of the joke, and I can't imagine that's all that controversial.

Anonymous Karc said...
I'm all for making penis references to overrated WNBA stars to balance things out.

Anonymous Toby said...
The thing that I don't understand is why the vagina is a symbol for weakness, when it should be a symbol for strength. Women are the ones giving birth after all, something no male on earth physically can do or could even handle for that matter.

Blogger Wormboy said...
Cool! Jim O'Brien is an M.C. Escher fan!

http://tinyurl.com/o-brienescher

Anonymous Hilary said...
Mr. Bawful,

You are absolutely right. That kind of humor is not "taking over;" I just went over the the posts on the front page carefully, and there's nothing other than a few references to Vince Carter. I chimed in on this thread not because I was bothered by THAT discrete reference but because I didn't want to see printf be the only one told to get lost and stop being over-sensitive when I'd sometimes felt the same way.

About a year or so ago, it did seem like every post had at least one woman joke, and I did get so tired of it that I stopped reading. When I started coming back recently, I skimmed the posts trying to get a basketbawful fix while avoiding the stuff I didn't like... and didn't realize it wasn't actually there anymore.

But to answer your question anyway: to me the line is where something stops being an occasional joke (a few isolated instances of the Vag Carter gag) and starts being the way you talk/write/blog (a comment or comments in every post). And I wouldn't suggest that you change anything... as far as I'm concerned, you're on the right side of the line. I didn't feel that way last year.

So, I apologize for not fully reading the current posts before commenting about the volume becoming distracting. It isn't.

Blogger Wild Yams said...
I'm sure nobody's still reading this, but I'd like to thank the women of this site for helping to take the spotlight off my beloved Lakers! Also, I'm happy that for once everyone is upset at someone other than me. I'll now go back to hiding and wait for my team to win a game so I may resume my trolling duties :)

PS - I for one am a fan of vagina and hope it never goes away.

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