Shaq kids
Question for Steve Kerr: Why stop with Shaq?
I bet those fat kids are still available.

Shaq to Phoenix.

Shaq to Phoenix?


The Gasol trade really surprised me. The Giants beating the Patriots in the Super Bowl absolutely stunned me. But this trade...this Shaq to Phoenix trade...I'm very nearly speechless.

Okay, I said "nearly."

What were the Suns thinking? Were they thinking?! I mean, the whole reason they (supposedly) dropped out of the Kevin Garnett Super Summer Sweepstakes was because Robert Sarver is a bloodless miser, and he didn't want to part with a young star (Amare Stoudemire) to take on KG's ginormous contract. Well, guess what? He parted with a young star (Shawn Marion) to take on Shaq's third-highest-in-the league contract ($20 million per year), and that beastly thing runs through 2009-10! By that time, I would sooner bet that Shaq's freakish skeleton will be on display at the Smithsonian than that he'll be slamming it home off a Steve Nash alley-oop at the end of a Suns fast break.

Shaq isn't a good fit for the Suns in any way, shape, or form. Particularly since his way is old, his shape is fat, and his form is...still fat. Can he run with the Suns? No. Can he provide the interior defense they need? Not without picking up a bunch of fouls and ending up on the bench. Can he boost their woeful, last-in-the-league rebounding numbers? Well, he's averaging a career-low 7 RPG and an aching hip has kept him in street clothes for the last few weeks, so you tell me.

Last October, I wrote (through TrueHoop) a mini-article for ESPN in which I questioned the existence of Steve Kerr's testicles. All I wanted was for the man who drilled the championship-clinching shot in Game 6 of the 1997 NBA Finals to show a little of the courage I know he has to have. But Jesus salsa dancing Christ, Steve, this is not what I meant. Trading for Shaq isn't gutsy, it's just crazy. If the Suns wanted a huge, lifeless hunk of meat, why didn't they just trade for Wilt Chamberlain, or maybe Andre the Giant? They're cheaper, they eat way less, and their PERs are nearly identical to Shaq's.

From a basketball perspective, I'll admit that Shaq gives the Suns a low post presence (which they've sorely needed) and will allow Mike D'Antoni to move Stoudemire back to the power forward spot, which is his natural (and most effective) position. And from a business perspective, the trade will draw national attention to the Suns, transforming them -- win or lose -- into The Big Storyline in an NBA season full of big storylines. That means ticket sales, and television ratings, and merchandising, and people rushing out to buy Shaq's new Suns jersey. In short, it means money, and, as we all know, Robert Sarver loves him some money.

All that being said, this trade stinks of reactionary desperation. Sarver didn't roll the dice on a KG trade, so he's had to watch Boston go from being the worst team in the league to (maybe) the best. Then the hated Lakers -- through the savvy acquisition of Derek Fisher and the continuing development of Andrew Bynum -- closed the gap on his team during what is probably the last year or two of the Suns' championship window. And that was before the Gasol trade. Once Pau went to L.A., Sarver had to make a move. A move nobody saw coming. A move to shock the world.

But not a move that's going to help Phoenix win an NBA championship.

Anyway, here's the rest of the worst of the night...

Indiana Pacers: They shot almost 70 percent in the first half, yet the game was tied 59-59 at the intermission. When you shoot that crazy of a percentage and still can't take even a one-point lead, you're probably in trouble. And they were. Indiana scored 9 points in the third quarter and eventually lost 116-89. At home.

Jamaal Tinsley: He was the driving force behind the Pacers' early season "We don't suck as bad as everybody thought we would!" push. Now he's been reduced to a meaningless bench player. Last night's line: 8 points (3-for-7), 2 assists, and1 turnover in 18 minutes.

Boston Celtics: They shot 57 percent from the field, 50 percent from beyond the arc, and 90 percent from the foul line. And lost. Yes, I know the Cavs are hot and Lebron James almost had a triple-double, but the Boston defense is a shadow of itself without KG.

Washington Wizards: They were up by 12 points in the fourth quarter, which should have been more than enough against a team like the Sixers (19-30). But it wasn't. The Wiz shot 5-for-20, missed all 10 of their threes, and committed 7 turnovers in that final stanza, and lost 101-96. Do they need Gilbert Arenas? Uh, yeah, I really do think so.

Kobe Bryant: The Black Mamba swallowed his own tail last night, shooting 3-for-13 and amassing more turnovers (7) than points (6).

New Jersey Nets: That Kobe line should have meant good things for the Nets, but it didn't. They still lost to the Lakers by 15 at home. That's how badly they suck.

Do something to cheer me up: Go read my NBA Closer column at Deadspin.

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Blogger flohtingPoint said...
Basketbawful, I now I hate my life. The Suns were the one thing I could count on day in and day out.
-Arizona Cardinals? No chance
-Arizona State Sun Devils? Above avg football, now avg basketball
-Phoenix Coyotes? Never
-Arizona Diamondbacks? Nobody likes baseball anyway

No, the Suns were always my security blanket... Now, we have a starting lineup of:
-Nash (30+)
-Hill (30+)
-Diaw (IQ of 30)
-Amare (knees of a 30+)
-Shaq (30+)

Awesome, my team just became the Golden Girls.

How about the fact that our starters play high 35-40 minutes a night? Adding someone who gives a halfassed attempt at effort for 25 minutes is NOT going to fit well in our system. We used to have a team full of track stars, now we're looking more like an old folks home.

Look for Barkley to race Shaq like he did Bavetta last year during the All Star break...

Anonymous manic said...
Wow. Thats all that has to be said about the Diesel coming to the Suns. Didnt see it coming, don't want to hate on it (I'll leave that up to everyone else), but I want to try to figure out what Shaq brings to this team. Rebounding, inside scoring to go along with Amare (dunks), speaking of Amare he is moved back to his natural position where he is better and maybe be able to stay out of foul trouble. Shaq has to become a role player, but at 20 million a year for the next 2 years, wow.

Im ready to hear everyone bag on this trade, but the Suns have not won with this current team, so why not take this HUGE gamble?

Anonymous Shrugz said...
remember shaq was complaining about shots

and now he's third option on the suns replacing LOL

this trade makes me wish toronto had some big fat former all-star with a huge contract that we can trade for a young potential (or already) all star player

Anonymous shrugz said...
Sorry I know I posted 2 seconds ago

if they wanted to take a huge gmable they shoulda traded Amare for KG
seriously why not? 2-3 year period
KG will defer shots to marion (cuz that's how he plays)
marion will be happy

Blogger flohtingPoint said...
if they wanted to take a huge gmable they shoulda traded Amare for KG

The Amare for KG made WAY MORE SENSE. It's not even a real gamble as Amare is one awkward landing away from becoming the basketball equivalent to Billy Simms. Add in the fact that this is still the NBA were talking about and not the NFL, we cant just get rid of the player in the same fashion and Sarver is WAY too cheap for a buyout. I would have gotten rid of Amare for Pau.

I'm really glad that they changed the name of the stadium... America West Arena was the house that Barkley built, and having that name associated with The Big Cripple would turn my stomach.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
RE: Shaq It was pointed out to me that between Marion and and Banks' contracts, Shaq would be The Big Albatross for 09/10 only, at which point he would be an expiring/retiring contract. Could they have gotten more for Marion? Talent-wise, yes, but possibly not at center, and possibly as a sign-and-trade deal which would probably just extend salary cap concerns for Phoenix, depending on what they got back.

Plus, Chemistry issues (Trade ME!!!) are still a concern in Phoenix, good play and denials or not. Marion is neither the future (that's Amare) or the present (Nash) in Phoenix right now. I don't know how Shaq will affect chemistry, but if he is motivated (which I think he will be) he can be The Big Chemist and help team unity. I'm from Portland, and look at what we've done with basically Brandon Roy, Aldridge, three rehabbing knees, a lively corpse (Lafraentz), and nine players who would be numbers 6-12 on the depth charts of teams with similar records.

It's a huge gamble, yes, but it does solve some problems immediately, and could make Phoenix a little more financially solid and able to retool (free agent if Shaq retires, bag o'goodies if someone wants The Big Expiring to make them better financially in 10/11).

Did I mention Shaq's nicknames all consist of "The Big" in front of some sort of discussion relevant word? It's so simple like a cupcake recipe. Sweet, delicious cupcakes.

Sean D.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
I'm in too much pain right now to respond to everybody individually. Let me just say this:

1. I've been an advocate of the Suns making a move, as long as the move was smart. This is not a smart move. It does not advance the Suns in any real way, other than they get some low post scoring. But they lose out on rebounding, defense, finishing on the fast break, etc.

2. The Suns should have gone for KG, absolutely. I screamed it last summer, and I even wrote an article for ESPN saying that Steve Kerr had no balls for not making that deal.

3. I'm too stunned by this to even make sense or think rationally, let alone be funny. So please, for today, just insert your own fart jokes, okay?

Anonymous shrugz said...
I dont' know about farting but I think every pheonix fan shat their pants when they heard of this
even if this was a rumour

Anonymous reuben said...
Kobe-ster had a dislocated finger. Ok it was the pinky but still.. his +/- was 20 whatever that means.

Oh yeah, and im very sorry for your loss. If there is anything I can do to help, just let me know. The Suns were a great team, and they will be missed by all.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
reuben -- Yeah, I know about Kobe's pinky. I've already gotten 7 private emails from Lakers fans about it. But even if he'd lost a leg, 3-for-13 and 7 turnovers from a superstar gets noticed here. Besides, I needed some solace for how well Pau played for the Lakers last night.

Anonymous OptimusPrime said...
I agree, for the Suns, this is about the most ridiculous trade possible, to put it lightly.

But what about the Heat? What do you all think of a Wade/Marion combo? That's not a bad combo. I doubt they'll be jumping into Pistons/Celtics level right away, but they could be competitive...

Blogger flohtingPoint said...
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Sarver
Sent: Summer of 07
To: Kevin McHale
Subject: Kevin Garnett for Amare

Kevbo, what kind of idiot do you think I am. Kevin Garnett for Amare Stoudemire? What sense does that make!?! Get real and make me a decent offer... It's a shame you guys traded away that Olowokandi guy, I've been dying to get a fatass who doesn't care about anything on my team.

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blogger Basketbawful said...
optimus -- Oh, you're absolutely right. Pat Riley pulled off a coup. He got rid of his $20 million albatross and got a young, fast, athletic All-Star-level player. And if Marion doesn't work out, well, he can opt out and his salary comes off the books, giving the Heat serious financial flexibility. Win-win for the Heat. They weren't going anywhere with Shaq.

anonymous -- When I saw that, I started laughing out loud...but when I started actually thinking about it, it seemed a lot less funny.

Blogger starang said...
Mark my words. Steve Nash will make this whole thing work.

Its not a question of whether or not Shaq can play with us. Its a question of whether or not Shaq can stay healthy. If he is healthy and therefore on the floor, Nash will make it work.

Shaq's hip would not be bothering him if Miami had a double digit win column. I am predicting a renewed sense of urgency from Shaq with his new team. He's fat, he's slow up and down the floor...but that just leaves more room for Amare and Hill to finish the fast break, which we finish 3 on 2 or 2 on 1 anyways most of the time. Now, if the break is not there, just run your 2 man game as usual...except we have Osama bin Shaq in the middle. Sounds good to me.

I, too, projectile vomited when I first caught word of this trade. But after having layed in bed awake all last night thinking about it, thinking about it all this morning, on my drive to work when I ran over that transient, and over my cafetearia lunch that tasted like cold oatmeal sucked through a straw from a sweaty running shoe just now...I really think it has potential.

Not to say I'm not worried...I give it 50/50 at this point.

PPG 14.2
RPG 7.8
APG 1.4
SPG 0.6
BPG 1.7
FG% 0.581
FT% 0.482
3P% 0.000
MPG 28.5

PPG 15.8
RPG 9.9
APG 2.1
SPG 2.0
BPG 1.5
FG% 0.526
FT% 0.713
3P% 0.347
MPG 36.4

8 min less a game, and Shaq's "lowest performing season of his career" is up to par with Marion's avg's, on 5.5% better FG%. So, like I said...if he can stay of the floor, we'll be sitting pretty.

My final thoughts: Kobe is a Vagina, and Lakers fans are all ass-spelunking turd burglers that all wish they were the one Kobe raped. Go mash dinner, queers.

Anonymous reuben said...
Oh man. I really like starang.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
Holy crap, Starang. I think you gave me my first smile of the day.

Anonymous manic said...
Starang is right. Nash fixes all. Who hasnt played with Nash since he came back to Phoenix and sucked? Shaq should be no different. The man still demands a double team, and with the Sun's shooters, it will be a field day for them with wide open looks. Marion was as good as gone after this season, and you know what, I hope he does well in Miami. Just dont expect him to score the ball when you give it to him on a one-on-one matchup.

Can;t wait to see it all in action and find out how much "go" the big guy has left. Im sure he has enough in him to take out Kobe and the Lakers.


Thats just plain nashty!!

Anonymous shrugz said...
oh I never thoought of it that way AHHAHAHA damn nice nice nice

Anonymous Anonymous said...
My knee-jerk reaction to the trade was that it was horrible, but when you think about it, it really makes sense.

For all his talents, Marion was a really limited offenseive player. The only way he scored was basically on lob-dunks and spot up jumpers.

He even had trouble converting on little 4-5 ft runners because of his awkward release.

Aside from the 3-pt shooting, Shaq does the same things Marion does, but he can create his own shot and sometimes draw a double team.

On the defensive end, Shaq won't prowl the paint and get blocks, but he doesn't need to. He's got a huge body to throw against other post players to slow them down, while Amare gets to do all the high-flying help defense swattage.

Anonymous Don Paco said...
OK, like everyone I think this trades sucks ass. On that, three extra thoughts:

1- The Suns should DEFINITELY have gone for KG. Even if it meant trading Amare.

2- The only explanation that makes any sense of this: Kerr and D'Antoni concluded "we need someone who can guard Timmy in the playoffs". Which doesn't make any sense at all.

3- My conspiracy theory: Stern gets on the phone with Sarver:

STERN: Bob, Miami is a mess. I need you to sign on a really dumb trade to save the Heat or we're losing that franchise for a decade.

SARVER: What's in it for me?

STERN: A cajillion dollars that will go unreported in the official NBA accounts.

SARVER: Me like money. Sold.

STERN: OK. Also, we'd like you to send Amare and Raja to New York for Zach Randolph, Jerome J...


Anonymous sonofjorel said...
After getting over the initial shock, I think this could actually work for the Suns. As someone mentioned previously, even though he is old and fat and slow, Shaq still demands a double team when he catches the ball down low, which should lead to wide open shots. The only thing that really scares me isn't how well Shaq will fit in (I think he will do just fine) but how much the Suns will miss Marion. Over the past couple seasons we have seen that the Suns are still a pretty good team without Amare (2005-2006) and pretty much a terrible team without Nash (every game he has missed, and most of the time he goes to bench), but god damn Shawn has been on the floor so often that I don't really have a feel for how good this team can be without him. I agree that the Sun's needed to do something with Marion before the end of the season, and they needed another big to compete in the west, and if you think about it who else could they have gotten (today, not over the summer when Garnett was available.) Shaq may be getting old, but he is still Shaq. The more I think about it, I don't know if the Suns could have done any better in a straight up trade for Marion with any of the bigs that are conceivably available right now (plus we get rid of the piece of shit Banks as a bonus). Only time will tell, but I think this could work just fine.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
>Who hasnt played with Nash since he came back to Phoenix and sucked?

Er uhh, how about Boris Diaw?

>For all his talents, Marion was a really limited offenseive player. The only way he scored was basically on lob-dunks and spot up jumpers.

hehe... you realize at this point that Shaq is even more limited than the 2-option Marion? (I'll do the math for you. 1-option is less than 2.)

Love all the rationalizing about how great Shaq is. When he's fouling out of every game, slow to grab rebounds, and generally messing up the flow of the Suns' game, come back and rationalize then.

Anonymous Shrugz said...
I guess you forgot that diaw player well with nash when he was first acquired and Amare was injured and that's how he got his contract....interesting on how people forget that

and the fact that diaw's playing pretty well as a starter so he'll probably move there once marion's out

Anonymous Chris said...
This thread sums things up pretty well. Nash will do what he does best and make enough ridiculous passes to shaq in the post to make him effective. All I can do to add to this post is reply to Sean D.

Blogger flohtingPoint said...
While what you say is nice and dandy, have you forgotten that the Suns half court game consists of screen and rolls and hurling poor choice threes?

With this trade, those screen and rolls just got harder for 28.5 minutes per game because Shaq sure as hell isn't going to do them and that middle just got clogged like a toilet after Uncle Ruckus just dropped a deuce because of The Big Immobile. We also lost someone that can hurl up more of those poor choice threes in Marion and got a black hole in return, as The Big MissedFreeThrow doesn't have court vision for the kickout.

I know, I know, I'm a downer. Blame John Paxson in 93, Ohio State in the 96 Rose Bowl, Bill Bidwill for being Bill Bidwill and the fact that I cant enjoy Phoenix's only championship on the fact that Baseball sucks.

Anonymous Chiwang said...
Post on shaq hit the spot. Though now that its finally over and the shock has subsided, I'm willing to see what happens.

Anonymous 80's NBA said...

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Sarver
Sent: Summer of 07
To: Kevin McHale
Subject: Kevin Garnett for Amare"

Right on, flohtingPoint.

The Suns will be playing 4 on 5 on offense whenever The Big Flubber is in the game. He is now basically the reverse of late 80's version of the cherry-picking Kareem (minus the effective sky hook). Picture him getting a rebound and flicking it off to Nash who, along with the 3 other players who ARE in shape, race up the court on offense. By the time Big Flubber gets just to midcourt, the shot clock will just about be expired. Either that, or else the 9 other players on the court will be running back the other way past him.

Folks, this is what happens when you have someone who knows absolutely nothing about basketball and thinks it would be "hip" to own an NBA franchise.

The Suns setting in the West.

Anonymous marck said...
Where RECYCLING happens.

Anonymous RainbowBright said...
Did Steve Kerr get hit with the stupification rays from the Brainspawn? Or has he been huffing glue with Kevin McHale and Isiah? I think even Barkley, even if he doesn't bust out the mythical Chaos Dunk, could play better than Shaq, with the cheaper price tag too.

That all being said, it has been Bizarro World for sports as of late. If Steve Nash can light a fire under The Big Tubby's ass, and he manages not to fall apart like Bill Walton or Grant Hill, a slight sense of goodness can come out of goodness can come out. Granted the odds are better on me winning Powerball, but its possible.

Blogger djnumbers said...
the trade was funnier than all the chappelle shows combined, meaning i laughed really, really hard when i heard about it. this is just like the caron butler for kwame brown trade. an all-star small forward traded for an underachieving big man. this time the suns are on the wrong end. subtraction by addition. even though the lakers lost to the hawks, life is still great! the lakers get better while their competitors get worse. as marv would say, YES!

Anonymous caseta said...
a few alternate scenarios that should have been explored:

* agree with the sonics that they will release kurt thomas so he can sign back with the suns for the min ? (give them some cash to convince them to do it)

* sign pj brown (decent against duncan when he was with the bulls last season)

* deal marion to atlanta. get josh smith as the main piece with lorenzen wright and speedy claxton as throw-ins to match salaries. also try and get horford while offering atlanta their own pick back for this draft. throw more money and picks if necessary. the hawks organization is such a mess that they may agree to such a trade.

* deal marion to charlotte for gerald wallace (if available).

* marion and banks to new york for marbury and lee (try and get nate robinson too). buy marbury out immediately so he can go play in italy, sit back and enjoy.

Blogger Wolfe said...
Shaq will be that factor only if he fits. I don't think teams will make double team on him, at least not the ones with Duncan, Bynum, Chandler or Camby on the court. Dallas could suffer, as Dampier is even more motionless than Diesel.

Nash could make play good my little cousin Jimena if she'll sign for Suns, but she can move. And Shaq can't. Suns offense is based on movility, givig Nash multiple pass options. Shaq will be an obstacle stuck in the middle of the paint for Hill and Amaré cuts.

I very much doubt that his defensing and rebounding will be a real factor, at least not the factor Marion was.

Finally, the trade is:
- Amaré for Marion in PF: Perhaps a little improvement in offense, but a serious decline on defense.
- Shaq for Amaré in center: 22,7-9,3 per night in motion for 14,2-7,8 stuck in the paint.

Blogger Tonewise said...
. .

Blogger flohtingPoint said...
Joe Namath didn’t do anything for the Rams. OJ didn’t do anything for San Fran. Larry Czonka didn’t do anything for the Giants. Ronnie Lott didn’t do anything for the J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS! Jerry Rice didn’t do anything for Denver. Patrick Ewing didn’t do anything for Orlando. Earl Campbell didn’t do anything for New Orleans. Hakeem didn’t do anything for Toronto. Tony Dorsett didn’t do anything for Denver. Vince Lombardi didn’t do anything for the Redskins. Emmitt Smith didn’t do anything for Arizona. Erik Dickerson didn’t do anything for Atlanta. Nique didn’t do anything for LA. Dylan didn’t do anything when he came back to 90210. Scottie Pippen didn’t do anything for Houston. James Lofton and Art Monk didn’t do anything for Philly. Franco Harris didn’t do anything for Seattle.

Blogger Tonewise said...
Josh Smith simply is untouchable.. look at his number his salary and then think to yourself really? you want to even think about moving him?

Same goes for Horford, he is a ROY this year IMO, not even through his first season and he can rack up 20 REBS?? lottery pick money for what four more seasons? and ud move him for what? ...gahh

Gwal might be something the cats would move, why im not sure but I jsut get the sense the Cats would entertain anything at this point, but really Wallace doesnt get the love he deserves... Charlotte may as well be in Canada right now.

Marion to NY... I guess, but I think all of the other owners like making fun of Thomas so no one wants to help him out, in any way/

Blogger starang said...
Talk all you want...I'll be correct in the end.

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