http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1010910

please be true, please be true, please be true, please be true...

So nobody has a pic of Shaq falling to take a big nap on Perk. That was brutal, but so is this blog, keep it up, laughter is underrated.

Wow... If I were LeBron, and I saw that horrifyingly cheesy, desperate bunch of losers singing to me about staying in Cleveland... I'd probably bolt immediately.

I'm just saying, in a bigger market, at least he'd get legitimate talent singing him that corny parody.

Honestly, and I'm not being funny or joking here... was that supposed to be serious?

If so, a billion Seth Meyers and Amy Poehlers saying "Really? REALLY?" will be resonating in my head.

Is it wrong to want to sign up so I can access the full bawful of that Sasha Vujacic site?

So nobody has a pic of Shaq falling down on Perk?There went some brutal man-love action.
Thanks for the underrated laughs!

hey, check out this latest article from yahoo: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-lakers-jackson-nash apparently PJ is up to his tricks again

http://www.nowpublic.com/sports/delonte-west-affair-gloria-james-lebron-james-mom-2617194.html


Well well well...its probably BS but hey its interesting

My apologizes. The first poster beat me to it.



Also. Jacksons antics are getting old. I hope Nash craps all over Derek Fisher's corpse

Player A:

2 time MVP & future Hall of Famer

Spectacular, unselfish player with incredible stats

Media darling

Led offensively challenged, atrociously coached teams for years

In those years, surrounded by B+ to D level talent, including 2 to 3 suspect all stars or over the hill former all stars (and 0 bona fide top 25 players).

0 rings in 7 seasons (But made the Finals one year). His career isn’t even close to being over.

Ousted from the playoffs year after year.

Response from the peanut gallery: He’s a loser. He has no killer instinct, no will/desire. His career has been a waste.





Player B:

2 time MVP & future Hall of Famer

Spectacular, unselfish player with great stats

Media darling

Led defensively challenged, decently coached teams for years

In those years, surrounded by A to C level talent, including 2 to 3 suspect all stars or over the hill former all stars (and 2 bona fide top 15 players at the time).

0 rings in 14 seasons (Never even made the Finals)*. His career is almost over.

Ousted from the playoffs year after year.

Response from the peanut gallery: He’s a winner. His team failed him. The refs/Robert Horry/David Stern screwed him. His career has been awesome.


Makes sense to me.


*Feel free to update this if player B gets a ring this year.

@gordon gartrelle

Player B doesn't carry on like he's GOAT. Different expectation set.

Player B's team's beef with bad luck and Stern is legit

Player B's former coach is greatly overrated ("I play rookies, I don't play BAD rookies"; "No problem, I'll trade TMac's corpse for him" BAM legit power forward for the Rockets next 4 years @ 2m per season at just like that.

@gordon gartrelle

Player A also has "Chosen 1" in big fucking letters tatooed across his back.

Maybe that's why people have different expectations.

@gordon gartrelle

Well, yeah, I agree that an assessment quite THAT harsh of Player A is completely unfair.

But Player B was JOKING when he said "I'm just like you, only, like, ten times better." Player A was serious when he sighed "I've spoiled you with me brilliance." (True or not, it's harder to root for a guy who actually says that.)

Besides, Player B WAS screwed in the Horry/bench mess. And Player B has never looked as distracted and disinterested on the court as Player A did this week.

Really? We're really comparing a short canadian PG with the best b-player that was ever born is this planet? Ok, whatever...

I know it's easy to attack LeCrab now, so let's be easy on the boy...

Just let me make a comparison with Deron Williams (before you start screaming, I'm not comparing talent):
when Deron came to the Jazz, all the fans said old man sloan should unleash him and run the offense the way he wanted. What did Sloan do? Started him from the bench, and gave him minutes as he was learning the offense. Plus, deron was smart enough (or adviced) to spend the summer with Stockton. And he became the player he is today.
Now, compare with LeGone's career. Really, it's not his fault. He's a kid. And kids are stupid and clueless. Without smart people around him (coaches, family), he will waste his career...
(plus: and it's not surronding him with player without work ethic - Shaq- that will make him better)

The Shaq fall on Perk was priceless. Any time my wife enjoys basketball, you know something awesome happened. The terrified "I'm going to suffocate in 400 pounds of sweaty blubber" look on Perk's face got the wife giggling, and for that I feel indebted to Shaq.

Also, thanks for the slo-mo Shaq travel. Another thing jumped out at me. Look how quickly the Celtics latched back onto their perimeter marks. It was like strings were pulling them. Before Shaq could decide whether or not the ball was edible, his teammates were all covered. Yeah, the Celtics really were locked in for the last 3 games. This is a team psyched for the playoffs.

it used to bother me when writers and commentators didn't gush over how steve nash plays with his injuries the way they did, and do over kobe.

here's another article showcasing kobe's heroics in coping with a sore finger and ankle...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AoBJ9gmJwZpY853OGhIufOy8vLYF?slug=ap-lakers-kobeschallenger

nowadays, i'm happy it goes relatively unnoticed. broken nose that a boxer would be proud of... manu's got more attention there (and a much bigger unnecessary bangage i might add!) a chronic back condition that has him laid out every game... eh, no biggie. the hip that has bothered him this post season, no mention of it. and of course the eye.... oh the eye. it's hard to look at without getting queasy.

but i'm sure it's hard for kobe to deal with his sore finger and ankle...

and to the poster above regarding nash's image compared to lebron's.... i had a large, angry response, but here's my condensed version. if the media is kinder to nash, then why is it that nash is still written of to this day to have "one legit MVP" and why is there no articles claiming steve is better that jordan?

lastly, nash has never quit on a game the way lebron did. down by nine with a minute thirty to go, steve considers that a lead.

Shaq didn't travel. His movements are so slow the Earth rotated under him before he could bring his foot back down.

gg- Player A plays in the weak ass East. He should have been in the Finals at least 2, maybe three, more times, although second is still first loser. And where do you get "unselfish" from? I don't see it.

"Peanut Gallery"? What the fuck, is this the Muppet Show Edition of Basketbawful.

Heretic said:
"Most basketball movies are awful though."

Yep. Here are some other truly bawful movies...

There's a movie called "Fast Break" from 1979 with Gabe ("Welcome Back Kotter") Kaplan. It also had Bernard King(!) and Michael Warren (UCLA Bruin and "Hill Street Blues" star). It wasn't totally bawful, there were a couple of funny moments, but this is 1970's low budget at its best. Fast Break with Gabe Kaplan review

Then there's "Scoring" with Pete Maravich (listed as Peter Maravich). This is just about unwatchable. "Scoring" with Peter Maravich

"The Fish That Saved Pittsburgh" (with Dr. J., Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Meadowlark Lemon, and even Marv Albert) "The Fish That Saved Pittsburgh"

and "Amazing Grace And Chuck" (starring Alex English with an appearance by Red Auerbach)

And of course, "Celtic Pride"

Well, we've compared James to Jordan, johnson, Jesus, and now Nash.

might as well add another name to the pile? Nowitzky.

Amazing talent? Check. MVP season? Check. Best record in the league? Check. Poor coaching? Check. Teammates that consistantly fail to show up at crunch time? Check. Image as the league's biggest loser? Er... And Nowitzki was pretty much robbed in 06'.

Besides, you can dance around it all you want, Gordon, but we all saw LeBron quit on his team midway through the playoffs. Let me just run that bad boy against you one more time - He quit on his team. Midway through the playoffs. Tell me I'm wrong.

@80s NBA

That is quite a horrifying list. There's "He got game" with Ray Allen but I can forgive that one because his character had one of the most awesome names a Bball player ever had ....Jesus Shuttlesworth. Does teen wolf count as a basketball movie? It is kinda weird that their classmate morphed into a creature from their nightmares but all was forgiven because he could dunk and break dance.

@Gordon

Nash doesn't have a PR machine that proclaims that he is the greatest thing since sliced basketball without winning jack shit (unless you count that sad website Nash has for instructional videos: http://www.stevenashmvp.com/ ). So I can forgive when he doesn't deliver. Nash played his heart out as a cyclops while Lebron was playing terrible due to an elbow (according to his GM). Its the same thing in highschool when the loud mouth procalims over and over again that he is the best at something and fails everyone will laugh at his sorry ass but if the quiet guy fails people will just shrug.

Best comparison is Floyd Mayweather (the boxer for those that don't know). He is much much much worse than Lebron at hype and self promotion yet he backs it up by winning every fight he has ever fought. So its hard to mock him. Proof is in the pudding and at this point Lebron's pudding tastes like fail.

@Czernobog

Agreed. You can dig up all of Lebron's amazing stats but all that comes up moot when he obviously just quit. Its not the elbow, its not that he was tired, its not the coaching, its not the surrounding cast. You can gift wrap it all you want but the guy just quit. Spurs were up by 20 at one point (I forget which game) and Nash and co never backed down. Before anyone says "Well the rest of his crappy cast quit as well" let me say that everyone on the team takes cues from the chosen one. He quits, they quit. That's the burden of responsibility when a guy with the self given moniker of "King" keeps reminding the team, the coach and the fans that he is the greatest.

Bodenlosen already touched on this, but Player B has spent his entire career in the Western Conference, where it is not uncommon for a team to win 50 games and wind up as the 8th seed. Player A has spent his entire career in the Eastern Conference, where 50 wins guarantees home court advantage in at least the first round.

Player A's MVP awards were damn near unanimous and all but decided by March. Player B's MVP awards have been torn apart by half the basketball consumers in the country.

Player A was on the cover of SI when he was 17 years old, openly compared to Michael Jordan, and has been forced down our throats as being great almost as much as Citizen Kane or the Beatles. Player B's team was considered insane when they signed him to that contract six years ago.

we can do this all day. and you've clearly had your head in the sand if you haven't heard the apologists for Player A (his coach! his teammates! his elbow!)

People are so dramatic. I read the word waste too many times.

Waste? The guy has been in the finals. Game 5 against Detroit. 2 MVPs which no one contests. Best record in the league 2 times, with weak ass teams. Incredible numbers.

Will he be the GOAT? I don't think so. And here's why: LeBron is not a very good ball handler or shooter and never will be. Not as good as Kobe and Jordan.

He could be if somehow he realizes that (which seems impossible due to his personality). A decent point guard handling the ball creating plays and passing the ball to LeBron after he used some screens like for example Hamilton or Allen do so well, his team would be invincible. He would score so many points it would be scary. And he still would get some assists.

LeBron should play in a running team not with the slowest guys in the league like Shaq and Ilgauskas. LeBron should play with Nash, that would be great to see.

Hell, I'm not familiar with John Wall's game but I hear he's fast. Maybe LeBron should go to whoever lands him. Or go to Chicago and play with Rose.

Just stop, guys. You're embarrassing yourselves with your bullshit excuses. You like Nash. You don't like Lebron. That's it. Just be honest about it.

They're both great players; they both lead flawed teams that lose to better teams in the playoffs. Period.

You all aren't critiquing basketball. You're critiquing the brain dead sports media's narratives about these players' characters and trying to pass it off as a basketball critique.

And now for something different... with more... heart!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS5yQJQewJU&feature=related

gordon gartrelle -- Most people here are destroying LeBron a little too hard, but you're also hugging LeBron's nuts so tight you're cutting off his blood circulation.

(And be fair -- LeBron just plain quit on his team. I've never seen Steve Nash just flat quit on his team like that. That's one thing you never, ever do as a team member in any sport in my opinion)

Dan B. - and before anyone tries to use that argument to say "Kobe's greater! Rings!"

Yes, he's got rings, with the assistance of Shaq and Pau.

He also quit on his team in that 2006 playoff series against Phoenix AND almost signed with the Clippers AND demanded a trade for a half a year, even when Jerry Buss's staff was hard at work trying to rip off the Grizzlies. (So this doesn't quite compare to KG wanting out of Minnesota)

The ridiculous King Crab/Delonte story continues to chug along, now with supposed "photographic" evidence of a rift between the head crustacean and his mommy:

http://socialmediaseo.net/2010/05/15/lebron-james-attacks-mom-over-delante-west-affair-picture-photo/

GG - You all aren't critiquing basketball. You're critiquing the brain dead sports media's narratives about these players' characters and trying to pass it off as a basketball critique.

You're not arguing basketball either; you're arguing public perception. Then backtracking on your own point with that second line. If you're going to call "bullshit" on anything, man up and stake out a definitive position and fight for it.

I was passed on the 580 today by a SUV with a huge "CLIPPERS NATION" sticker in the rear window. That, GG, is a bold man.

@gordon gartrelle

Yes, I like Nash more than LeBron. Does that make my argument invalid? No. You're asking why people have different expectations. The answer is that LeBron has set those expectations himself (along with the media, which was more than happy to help). Saying this is an bullshit excuse is just the easy way out. It's you who's embarrassing himself actually. Have a nice day.

@gordon

Yup Lebron being a douche does not help his cause but he did channel the spirit of Donyell Marshall in the playoffs. No matter what you say about him being a great player he simply did not lead his team in the playoffs.

@chris
Yes he got rings with assistance. So did Jordan, Magic, Bird etc. No one superstar player has ever gotten a ring with the rest of the team being made up of guys being as good at the game as the golden girls. Basketball is a TEAM sport so you need a good team to win, not one superstar and 4 scrubs. But you do need a leader, a KG or Bryant type that will tell you to put your game face on and play. A guy that may make you cry (KG vs Big Baby) when you make a critical mistake, a guy who will hold you accountable. Lebron is not that guy yet. He is the guys that snaps pics, that choreographs a complex dance routine for the side lines, he's a buddy, a pal. He's the guy that you want when you're winning but when you're losing or fucking up he's not the guy that will call you up and demand better. Sure he can use his influence with management to do as he pleases, to see which players get signed and which do not. But once the pieces are set and things aren't working out to plan he is not the guy that will play the bad guy to get the rest of the team to shape up.

Kobe definatly quit on his team in 2006. His supporting cast was Kwame "baby hands" Brown, Luke Walton and Smush Parker. A hell of a lot worse team than Cleveland had. Any guy would go ape shit if he kept feeding the ball down low to Kwame and watch him handle it like its a soap made of jizz and covered in oil. His frustrations may have been warranted but his actions were inexcusable. He should have played out the series as best he could to the end and then go ballistic. He made wild threats to the management and demanded Bynum get traded (which would have been a huge mistake). He did all this because that bastard desperately wants to win. The feeling I get from James is that he would be content if he never won a championship as long as the King James hoopla gets more airtime/marketshare. Before he has won anything he proclaimed he wants to be the first billionaire player, a CEO of an empire etc etc. Magic, Bird, Jordan even Kobe have focused on playing the game first, they had huge success off the court but they always made it clear that their focus was about being the best player they can be. Basketball was always first. To me James sees Basketball as just a pathway to an empire, he would like to win while on that path but if he doesn't then that's not a crucial problem as long as he gets his empire.

Like I said this is just an opinion. I'm sure plenty of James fans will loudly say that I "just don't understand" (hopefully to the same beat as Fresh price's "Parents just don't understand) but as long as I see a dancing picture taking hype machine instead of a guy that is determined to be the best player he can be, i'll take a pouting tantrum throwing Kobe any day.

Phil Jackson is upset that Nash gets away with carrying the ball. Speaking of star players getting away with things... didn't Kobe Bryant get away with something in Colorado?? Ya, I just went there.

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=5189958

I need an impartial jury to provide some feedback to me and my buddy. My friend kept arguing that LeBron is the best player on the planet and then challenged me to draft my best five NBA players against his best five on alternating picks with him picking first. You guys tell me who has the better team... Here's how our "draft" turned out.

His squad: 1. Lebron, 2. Kobe, 3. Pau Gasol, 4. Carmelo Anthony, 5. Dwayne Wade

My squad: 1. Dwight Howard, 2. Deron Williams, 3. Kevin Durant, 4. Dirk Nowitzki, 5. Gerald Wallace

Heretic: So if King Crab actually cared about winning, he would have told Shaq to stop visiting Tim Hortons Donuts on a regular basis? :D

In case you missed this:

http://www.gwabble.com/1882/whats-real-behind-lebron-james-mom-and-delonte-west-love-affair/


- Bukkake Monster

player A is a genetic freak. He's six foot eight, two hundred and lots of pounds of mostly muscle, and incredibly athletic. His handle and shot are not great, and his decision making and leadership skills are suspect. He's only ever once beaten a 50-win team in a playoff series (the 53-win Pistons in 06-07; the "Leastern conference" moniker was so remarkably appropriate that year.) His next best playoff series win was against a 47-win Hawks team; his other six series victories were against 43-or-less-win teams. Yeah, his teammates have been weak, but so has his conference. He doesn't seem to have the will or killer instinct to get past a truly good team in the playoffs.

player B is six foot nothin, a hundred and sixty nothin pounds, looks like my sister could take him in a fistfight. But he's honed his skills and his mind -- he dribbles well, passes well, shoots well, makes great decisions, and has never quit on a team. His team has beaten a 59-win Kings team, a 58-win Dallas team and several other 50-win teams. Yeah, he's gotten knocked out of the playoffs a zillion times by the Spurs, and yeah, he's had some great talent surrounding him while player A has been stuck with has-beens and never-weres. But you can't really say the guy doesn't have heart or will or killer instinct.

LeBron is a great basketball player. But for all the physical advantages he has over a guy like Steve Nash, he's still lacking something in his mental makeup. He might get it as his career stretches on and win a bunch of championship, or he might never get it, and be forever doomed to lead 60-win teams to victories over turribl first-round opponents and losses to legit contenders in later rounds.

Just because everyone who James is compared with didn't quit on their teams, doesn't mean that he can't be the first who does and then redeems himself when he is older and wiser (the man is 25!).

Vasco hit the nail pretty much on the head.

Cleveland will do fine if he can convince someone fitting to join him.....and live in Cleveland.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40369146@N08/3922404170 real man love here please check this and post

im donnie hutchins

@chris

Indeed. Also to figure out how to guard a pick and roll. The guys been in this league for 80 years and he still doesn't know how to guard a pick and roll. According to him his job was to "Win a ring for the king". I'm pretty sure that starts with mastering the basics.

I really hope he gets traded to Portland and some insane coach decides having him and Glass Joe aka Greg Oden are on the floor at the same time is a good idea.

Btw is Oden still considered a rookie? how many games do you actually have to play before becoming a vet?

Factfinder -- I hate the lack of point guards! But I might have to go with your buddy's squad, if only because of lack of bigtime playoff experience (Wallace and Durant) and, well, Dirk.

@Factfinder

I'd trade out either Kobe or Dwayne for CP3 or Nash. But yeah I'd go with your buddy's team. Most of his players are smart enough to go right at Howard to get him into foul trouble and thus making him a non factor. What about coaches? If his team is being coached by Mike Brown then it would probably fall apart or the rest of team would just watch Lebron go into rampaging bull mode to get foul calls.

LotharBot:
Steve Nash is 6'3", 178. He's not just a little midget running around. He is not very strong, but he is of average height for PG's, so the "six foot nothing" comment is null, as is the one about him being able to be beat up by your grandmother. Looks mean next to nothing in basketball, so it doesn't matter what he looks like, as long as he has game to back it up, which he does.

Lotharbot:

By claiming that Steve Nash is simply "six foot nothin, a hundred and sixty nothin pounds, looks like my sister could take him in a fistfight" and that "he's honed his skills and his mind", you're pretty much making the classic "white guys play with their mind and sharpen their fundamental skills, and that's why their so great" argument. It seems a lot of white guys love to make the "if only I were 6'9" and kept working really hard, I could be as good as Larry Bird" claim. Which is total bullshit.

One thing that Basketbawful and others didn't point out in the Larry Bird-passing post is what really made Larry great. Besides Nash, Bird is the other player who everyone points to as the typical "he worked his ass off to become great despite his athletic limitations". Could he jump like Tyrus Thomas or run like Lebron? Of course not. But running and jumping aren't the only factors in athleticism.

See....Bird was a special athlete for many reasons:
- First, he was born ambidextrous. That automatically takes him off the "needs to work on his off-hand" list of players.
- Second, he was born a natural shooter. A lot of guys have to work on their shots to be consistent. But if you've read Chris Ballard's recent book, he goes into why guys like Ray Allen and Steve Kerr are truly pure shooters. Sure, it still takes a lot of hard work to remain a pure shooter in game situations, but most of the work has already been done for you by God.
- Third, he had a photographic memory. It's not quite as simple as "he mapped out the plays and players in his head, and figured out the best way to pass." You, the normal basketball player without photographic memory, can try this sometime, but I guarantee that you'll lose yourself within a couple of plays. You can work on this skillset all you want, but you'll never be as good as Larry and other blessed with photographic memories. The fact is that Larry will remember an exact play, along with who all the players were and where they were situated, that happened several years ago.

As for Nash: I don't have cable, so I watch my ESPN games on ESPN3. During halftimes, they keep showing a feature on Nash in which he explains he has perfect vision, if not better. As a guy who has horrendous vision and who plays in glasses, I have only a fraction of the vision area that I imagine Nash does. Another key point is that everyone who knows Nash will say that he could be an elite-level athlete in virtually any other sport by virtue of his athletic gifts.

Hard work by itself will only get you so far. But if you have innate athletic advantages that Nash, Bird, and countless other athletes have (black and white), hard work will open up an endless world of possibilities.

Factfinder: Who's your friend's PG? Wade? I'd definitely go with your team, because there's only one ball in a game.

That said, I agree with Basketbawful that Wallace and Dirk are iffy choices.

@Bawful: Dirk just needs an alpha dog to play with him so that he can concentrate on being the second or third option... Unfortunately, when you are the franchise player, it makes it harder to get that person on your team... Since the team I picked has Howard, Dirks disdain for the post isn't such a big deal.

I figured my buddy would have Bron or DWade running the point. Those guys are prone to giving up the ball quite a bit. I probably should have picked Kobe 1st but I didn't want Bron and Dwight on the same squad. From there, it was sort of damage control... I tried to create matchup problems by picking Dirk and I figured defense wins championships so I grabbed G. Wallace as my defensive stopper.

Heretic: Considering Greg Oden's age, is there really a rookie season possible in all of that? :D

I'm loving the Magic - Celtics game right now. The refs aren't calling anything. Hopefully they'll continue this in the second half instead of tightening up and calling every touch foul.

Vag Carter was the best player for the Magic? Wtf? Vince fucking Carter. Of course that explains why they lost.

Gotta give it to the Celtics though especially Ray Allen and Tony Allen. Kept cutting into the paint even though Howard was there. No matter how many blocks Howard had they kept slashing. See Hawks? That's what not being a scared bitch looks like.

Even though the Magic (and the Celtics) played terribly the Magic never quit even though they were down 20 at some point. That last play the Magic had where Jameer tipped it in after Carter intentionally missed the free throw was genius. See Cavs? Thats what not being a quitting bitch looks like.

Loved the officiating just horrible calls all around. Fouls, illegal inbound passes, moving screens...refs said "Fuck it, its Thunderdome rules baby!".

I kinda expected the Magic to come out flat after a long time off. But Howard got a wake up call when Perkins and Wallace guarded him, very physical and no easy dunks. Hell Wallace got him a technical foul as Howard just looked around looking bewildered like a some one had just jacked his lunch money.

Even though the Magic lost home court advantage I don't feel that the series has tipped one way or another. Both teams came off awkward. Hopefully the next game they play better but the officiating stays the same.

is there an official word of the day for corpses like sheed coming alive in the playoffs AND actually help their team?

Forget Perkins or Sheed. The best C in the league can't score on Big Baby.

http://apexnewsnetwork.com/21347/lebron-jamess-mom-gloria-james-affair-with-delonte-west/

Delonte west, aka motorcycle mariachi, was/is appearently knockin down LeGones mom. If this is true it deserves its own post. Hell if there are pics they should go in the banner!

Anonymous: Dr. Funkenstein? :D

Rasheed is like one of those evolved zombies from "Land of the Dead", who not only came back to life, but managed to relearn some basic elements of their former life, and blow up the bad guy by filling his car with gasoline.

@stephanie g: Pumaman is the best center in the league, sure, but offensively speaking he's a poor man's Shaq (circa '99 when he wasn't 700 pounds). Push people out of the way and dunk on them; if he runs into someone who pushes back, or he's more than 3 feet from the basket, he's in a *heap* of trouble. Can't shoot free throws. Doesn't pass very well.

Not exactly Olajuwon or Ewing.

Perkins' footwork on offense is just suspect; everytime the Celtics are called for a travelling violation or a moving screen, 8 out of 10 it's Perkins.

Kind of odd, because on defense he hardly puts a wrong step in.

Rasheed Wallace quote machine:

“A lot of them jump shots, the buttholes get tight,”

Carter hasn't been hammered yet. He will be, and then he'll cave. Oh yes.

Dan B., you're misreading what I'm doing here. I'm not nutriding Lebron, I'm exposing bawful, dishonest basketball arguments.

I am only defending Lebron on basketball terms. I critique him on basketball terms as well (e.g. I agree with every one of you that he should have gotten his ass in the gym over the last few summers to develop a solid mid range and post up game, so he wouldn’t have to rely so much on his inconsistent outside shot).

Everyone acknowledges that, with the exception of the ‘04 Pistons, to win a championship in the modern NBA, you need at least 2 top tier players, clutch role players, and, at minimum, above average coaching. Lebron has never had these. Yet, you guys are saying that he should have won several rings by now?

That defies basketball logic. If people are stupid enough to give credence to the hyperbole of marketing machines instead of trusting several decades of modern NBA history, isn’t that their problem?

Last month, in these very comment sections, I said how the Cavs, despite their record, were not a championship level team, and that their flaws were ones that make for playoff losers. I’m not psychic, I just watch basketball objectively. You all should try it sometime.

Now as for the specific responses/excuses:

1. He quit on his team.

If Lebron quit (impossible to prove), so did Kobe and Pippen. The latter 2 players won rings subsequently, and their “quitting” episodes are barely footnotes.


2. He’s never won a ring.

Neither has Nash and he’s been in the league twice as long. There’s plenty of time left. Plus, Barkley, Stockton, Malone, and host of other great players never won rings. It doesn’t mean they were overrated or had no desire; All it means is that they ran into better teams, kind of like Lebron.


3. You can’t compare Nash and Lebron: he’s a gigantic, athletic black man, not a 6 foot tall white guy with floppy hair.

WTF does that have to do with anything? You all have a serious case of Rocky/Hoosier-itis.

Keep moving the goalposts, guys, and keep telling yourselves that you’re being rational and that you’re not biased.

@gordon

A couple of quick answers:

1 - Impossible to prove? Maybe. But its kinda like the OJ thing, we all know he did it. During the time kobe quit, it was big news and it kept being news until he redeemed himself. Lebron hasn't yet and so its still news.

2 - Lebron said he was a "Winner" (reason why he didn't shake hands) yet he hasn't won a ring. Most people would be fine with him losing if he just would shut the fuck up. But if he's going to keep blabbing about how so great he is, people will keep throwing in his face that he hasn't won jack shit.

3 - Dunno about the whole black white thing (kinda reminds me when Isiah said if bird was a black guy he would just be considered an average player) but Lebron is bigger, faster, stronger and younger than Nash. That's just a fact.