Henry Abbott mentioned this week's WNBA posts on TrueHoop yesterday. In the same article, a TrueHoop reader provides a list of 10 reasons to why we (with "we" being pretty much everybody) are idiots for not watching WNBA games. Go check it out.

Now, the comment I found particularly interesting was the one in which Henry suggested that Basketbawful had "lost the moral high ground, perhaps, when it later called for WNBA games to be played in skin-tight outfits for the amusement of lusty fans."

Have you ever noticed that almost every conversation about the WNBA's lack of popularity eventually transforms into a discussion of morality, human dignity and gender equality? Not that these concepts aren't worth discussing, but at least with regards to Evil Ted's "let's dress 'em pretty" post, they miss the point. Allow me to elaborate. I live in Chicago. As such, I try to attend as many Bulls games as my time and personal finances allow. Let me describe that experience for you:

I get to see the Luvabulls dancers -- described on the team Web site as "beautiful, talented and articulate women" -- expose large sections of their anatomy and gesticulate in ways that prominently display their breasts and behinds. Sometimes while wearing suggestive, lingerie-like clothing. For instance:

luvabulls

I am forced (rather against my will) to endure the sight of the Matadors -- a group of dancing fat men -- expose large sections of their anatomy and gesticulate in ways that prominently display their breasts and behinds. Sometimes while wearing suspenders and funny hats. For instance:

matadors

Then there's the Swingin' Seniors "entertainment team," a group of older women dressed up in Bulls jerseys who sing and dance. There's also the BullzKidz, a group of teens who run around and act really superduper excited (the tagline: "Energy in a small package!"). The Junior Luvabulls are basically miniature versions of the actual Luvabulls, only they're little girls in short skirts instead of bigger girls (relatively speaking) in even shorter skirts. The IncrediBulls wear McDonald's logos ("I'm lovin' it!"), perform gymnastics and fire t-shirts into the crowd. And, of course, their are those brave men who dress up like stuffed and/or inflatable animals to dance, fight and appear on the Jerry Springer Show.

There are also a variety of "fan interactive events," where, for instance, people from the crowd spin around on the tip of a baseball bat until they're dizzy enough to throw up and then try to shoot a layup without falling down. ONLY THEY ALWAYS FALL DOWN. To the crowd's delight, of course. Other fans compete in a nightly sing-off to win fabulous prizes, like a McDonald's Big Mac, only they usually sing so poorly and off key that the whole experience becomes a study in public humiliation. And, of course, I've already described my halftime of horror, in which I was introduced to Duo Design, a "strength and hand-balancing act from Warsaw, Poland." Basically, it's two topless guys in ass-hugging tights and gold body paint doing gymnastics -- slow, sweaty gymnastics -- off each other's bodies. No, really.

duo design

But keep in mind that these are simply sideshows to the real event, in which muscular male athletes, dressed in shorts and tank tops, sprint up and down a 94-by-50-foot court, leaping high into the air and playing games with an inflatable ball purely for the purposes of our entertainment. Dunk the ball! Dunk for me, puppets!

Here's the point: The NBA is, first and foremost, a business. As such, they willingly exploit their players, their hired entertainers and their fans in any and every way they can in order to make money. It would be great if professional sports could exist solely for the sake of the sports themselves, but they cannot. They provide goods (the players) and services (entertaining games), and if those things cannot be sold, the business will fail. It's that simple. That's why certain players (like, say, Mario West) are largely ignored while other players (such as Kobe Bryant) are repeatedly exploited.

Seriously, Kobe Bryant is the most exploited basketball player of our time. His team exploits him ("Come see Kobe Bryant take on the Spurs!"), opposing teams exploit him ("Come see Kobe Bryant try to beat your team...maybe he'll even score 81 points!"), sports writers and bloggers exploit him because any article or post about Kobe will cause an almost immediate spike in readership.

That's the reality of it. Human dignity is a noble goal, to be sure, but it didn't keep NBA's Hoop Magazine from airbrushing the tattoos right off of Allen Iverson's body, nor did it prevent David Stern from instituting a dress code to try and prevent the league's mostly white, middle class fan base from associating its players with rap artists and criminals. Back in the 50s and 60s, both professional and college basketball tried to discourage and even outlaw the slam dunk. But when the people in power figured out that the dunk both amazed and delighted the fans -- drawing them in even bigger, higher-paying numbers -- they decided to exploit the hell out of it.

The WNBA is a business, just like the NBA. To my knowledge, that business has never been able to turn a profit, yet it still exists, mostly because of the persistent support of David Stern and the immense wealth of its brother league. The WNBA formed in 1996 and has operated in deficit spending ever since. How many business could survive like that? Could any other business that exists solely for the entertainment of its audience remain doggedly the same, changing nothing, and yet convince shareholders and investors to continue flushing away millions of dollars per year because there are various moral and ethical reasons to keep trying to entertain people in a certain way? I highly doubt it.

Look, Evil Ted's suggestion was callous and exploitative. But really, take a closer look at the NBA experience I described above and ask yourself whether that suggestion is really any more callous and exploitative than the many ways the NBA is sold to its consumers. I honestly don't think it is. It's just idea that might get more people to purchase the WNBA product. And that's simply good business.

Update! Henry responds with a thoughtful post. One last note on this subject: I do think it's unfortunate that people often get treated like cattle so that a business can make money. I see it happen at my Clark Kent job all the time. I see it happen in beauty magazines. I see it happen at Burger King. I think many organizations have to disconnect their kindess and sympathy in order to do business. I don't think it's necessarily right, or conducive for making a better world, but that's capitalism for you.

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72 Comments:
Blogger JustinS said...
Are you as creeped out by the Junior Luvabulls as I am by the Junior Blazer Dancers?

Blogger Cortez said...
Moral high ground?

Get the fuck out of here.

The WNBA sucks ass. And it has little to do with the fact that it isn't played "above the rim".

...and I would watch a few more games if their were tits and ass on full display but not many. Most of the chicks are simply not attractive on nearly any standard scale of beauty.

And I can say, without being hyperbolic, that I would murder Candice Parker one on one and I'm not even a elite player, not even close.

She is simply to weak and too slow, period.

I watched Henry Abbott train at IMG on espn.com and I see why he is impressed with some of the WNBA players.

He is a bum on the court.

Decent writter though, but a bum on the court regradless.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
justins -- Yes. Very yes.

cortez -- For the record, I like and respect Henry a lot, and wasn't trying to poke fun at or insult him with this post. Just trying to make a point about how successful business typically exploit their assets.

I, personally, have never played basketball against an elite WNBA-level player. I have no idea what it would be like. I'd be interested to find out.

Blogger Cortez said...
I always thought the NBA should pair up the WNBA games with the men's game for double headers.

Even if I was interested in watching substandard athletes play basketball, there is no fucking way I am staying in the house on a 83 degree summer day to watch it.

I remember years ago E.C. Hill came to our pickup gym. She couldn't get a clean shot off on her own. She could stoke the open shot with the best of them but left to her own devices it was a no go.

She certainly "knew how to play basketball" but she simply was too slow to have a chance to dominate.

Blogger Cortez said...
I didn't think you were trying to insult him. Neither was I. truehoop.com is a great site, due directly to Henry's efforts.

But I do stand behind my evaluation of his actual playing abilites.

Those videos were a sad display.

I've played against quite a few "elite" women players.

E.C. Hill used to come to our pickup games when I was in college. She was mediocre, at best.

Unless she confined herself to play catch and shoot ball and her man decided he wasn't going to play a woman hard. She was lights out in that case.

Unless you a just as unathletic as they are and can't play defense you will be just fine.

If you have any ability off the dribble what so ever, you'll get any shot you want, period.

Even if you don't dominate you certainly won't feel as if you are playing against a "professional athlete".

Blogger Sturla said...
E.C. Hill wasn't excactly a "elite" player. 2 seasons in the WNBA and didn't even average 2 pts per game.

Elite players are someone like Candace Parker, Lisa Leslie, Cheryl Ford etc.

So if "Mario West" of the WNBA is mediocre at your level, I would say an Elite WNBA player would stomp your ass.

Blogger Truth About It said...
I'll say a couple things to this:

1) Don't like the WNBA...it's not entertaining. That being said, I think it's great that girls/women have a professional league as an option.

2) Yea, the WNBA hemorrhages money...and is only alive thanks to the NBA. However, I think the WNBA is part of David Stern's all-encompassing basketball investment strategy in his efforts to turn basketball not only into a global game, but a game that appeals to both genders.

I believe his thinking is this: 'If I invest money in the WNBA and increase the amount of women who follow the sport, then they are more likely to follow the NBA as well.'

3) How does Henry call NBA fans "dumb" for not caring about a brand of basketball they obviously do not find entertaining.

Should he call hockey fans idiots if they don't care about figure skating?

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
I really shouldn't have clicked on that "Junior Luvabulls" link at work. Expecting an e-mail from HR any moment now...

Anonymous AK Dave said...
"Moral High Ground" Henry? Really? I find the integrity of this blog to be almost bulletproof 99.99999999% of the time. Perhaps controversial, but all statements are backed up with facts and direct links to prove them. And if some touchy issues are brought up (like the WNBA), at least they are argued in manner that I would consider HIGHLY civilized for internet standards. I like the fact that this blog "goes there" and isn't afraid of stirring up a little controversy. Makes my day more interesting and makes me think a little bit.

And as Henry admitted in his post- at least you MENTIONED the WNBA- Henry didn't post on it until he read your blog and a reader called him out on not covering it.

I'm going to go ahead and say this- I used to read Henry's Blog and it would occasionally lead me here, where I would laugh my ass off and say "That's a cool blog- I should visit it more often". After about a year of repeatedly being linked here by Truehoop (back when I read ESPN.com) I bookmarked Basketbawful. Now I go straight here, and occasionally this site leads me to Truehoop.

With all due respect to Henry, he writes very little original material on his blog- he links to other blogs and comments on what he reads and this makes it very easy for him to maintain "moral high ground" since his opinions (and the opinions of his friends *cough ET *cough) are rarely expressed- understandable considering his employer. This is fine; Truehoop is just that kind of a blog. But I prefer reading a blogger who isn't afraid to talk about real issues like race on the playground, sex in sports, or sex in sports drinks :)

Anyhow, I believe the moral fiber of Basketbawful to be well intact. I hope it will continue not to be influenced by the overly-pc mainstream. It's OK to have a little honest discussion about real issues, even if we don't all agree.

Blogger Zonker said...
The whole argument "basketball is basketball" sound a little like a gay dude trying to convince a straight guy that a bj is a bj no matter what.

It is funny how the author of the TrueHoop post totally missed the point with the women basketball uniforms - the Australian team is actually using them, it is not some crazy concept/wet male fantasy. So I guess women basketball in Australia is ruled by lusty dudes...NICE! Maybe we should ask Luc Longley

Blogger BJ said...
"Junior" Luvabulls?!? Vomit.

I started watching basketball because when I was flipping channels one day I caught a game and realized I was thinking lusty wrong thoughts about one of the players. ET's idea says bad things about the state of humanity . . . but beautiful bodies sell.
-BJ

Blogger BadDave said...
Zonker - humor is humor. And your first line was funny.

ak dave - +1

Cortez - shenanigans. I'm assuming a few things. Such as the fact that you have a Clark Kent job, no coaches, and no personal trainers. Parker's CK job IS basketball, and even if they aren't the best of the best, she has coaches and trainers to keep her skills sharp and conditioning excellent. You may be one hell of a ball player, but my money is on Parker, in either a one-on-one setting or a team setting.

You know what - I bet you could set something up with Parker in her off-season. Film that, and back it up. Then I'll support your claim. Otherwise, my shenaigans eternally remains.

Blogger Cortez said...
"E.C. Hill wasn't excactly a "elite" player. 2 seasons in the WNBA and didn't even average 2 pts per game."

You better learn how to use "the goggle".

The WNBA wasn't even in existence when E.C. Hill was doing her thing and I was I college.

The E.C. Hill of the WNBA was washed up.

"I would say an Elite WNBA player would stomp your ass."

And I say space aliens exist! So what?

Blogger Victor said...
Junior Luvabulls?! Combine this with the Easter bunny post and you'd think Bawful had a thing for kids. Did you dress up as Indiana Jones so no one would be suspicious of you dragging around a little boy?

I think Cortez overstated his point, but I think he's trying to emphasize that basketball is a sports where the difference between men and women is just astronomical. I can't remember where I heard it, but someone said the two sports where the differences between male and female athletes are the sharpest are basketball and fighting. Being bigger, stronger, and faster than your opponent just means they'll get absolutely abused. Of course you can apply that principle to other sports as well, but the point is that the contrast isn't as sharp.

Blogger Drake said...
There is no ceding the moral high ground here. As objectively as I can be, I can fairly say this: the WNBA sucks, pure and simple.

I don't question the heart and toughness of the players or whether they played through some injuries that made me cringe just reading them. But it doesn't mean anything when I'm watching a game. The game I'm being told by the Truehoop contributor to watch makes it seem like it's a rehash of the 1994 Knicks-Pacers series, possibly even better. But the game that I've seen with my own eyes is usually filled with sloppy plays, players trying to become Michael Jordan and dunking (and usually missing), 3-pointers that brick off the backboard, and scores lower than some Michigan State mens basketball games. In short, it's horrendous.

Yet it continues to get airtime on ESPN and ABC, with flashy ads featuring highlights that I almost never seen in the games. But my biggest beef is with something that's not technically not even part of the WNBA.

Every NBA All-Star Weekend, ESPN shows that stupid celebrity basketball game featuring the likes of Frankie Muniz and Ashton Kutcher. It's awful and it makes me want to claw my eyes out. But invariably, there's a WNBA player there, and she's usually a WNBA All-Star. But if you were completely ignorant of all things WNBA, you would never guess she played professional basketball, let alone at an all-star level, because she looks just as bad as the other players/celebrities out there. The level of play is so bad that a former scrub like Jerome "Junkyard Dog" Williams could dominate just because he's quicker and can dunk.

So can anybody tell me this: why would the WNBA or any one of their players even participate and subsequently lose their/her dignity and face in something like this.

Seriously, there's exposure and there's overexposure. With the ratio of exposure vs. number of fans, the WNBA is way overexposed. On the same vein, they choose to go the route of bad overexposure by offering one of their star players to even participate in the celebrity game.

If the WNBA has any dignity left, it would wise up and refuse to participate in that farce.

Blogger Cortez said...
"I'm assuming a few things."

That was your first mistake.

"Such as the fact that you have a Clark Kent job"

My "Clark Kent job" allows me to train like a maniac and take at least 500 jumpshots a day on the regular. My plyo workout is tremendous. even with my assortment of injuries I play with the pros (men) in the summer with no problem.

"no coaches"

I made a division one basketball team. I study basketball like it was my life. I'll manage.

"and no personal trainers."

I'm a physical specimen. I train like I was still in school, year round.

"Parker's CK job IS basketball, "

Good for her.

"and even if they aren't the best of the best, she has coaches and trainers to keep her skills sharp and conditioning excellent."

Those coaches better be the ones from Rocky 4. Otherwise it's a wrap.

I'll say my 5x a week shooting drills per week plus my conditioning training will carry me over just fine.

"You may be one hell of a ball player..."

I'm not, compared to top men. I'm just a better physically than the vast majority of women and skill wise I'll do just fine.

So while her skill set may be sharp, and I'm sure it is, it would be like me going to a karate match against a 6th grader.

"but my money is on Parker"

All that means is that you would likely lose your money.

"in either a one-on-one setting or a team setting."

One-on-one? Parker can barely dunk (I'm only using that as a measurment of her athletic ability). She would never stop me from getting any shot I wanted, period. Her only chance would be to hit a shitload of contested jumpshots. She couldn't beat me off the dribble or post me up, period.

In a team setting? Well, they better set a shitload of screen for her like she was Jimmy Chitwood and on the other end they better send a double team every single time.

If not, her ass would be toast.

"You know what - I bet you could set something up with Parker in her off-season."

Really? Imagine that!

"Hey, Candice, will you come play some random stranger one-on-one in order to prove a point to some numbskull on the internet? You will? What a doll!"

"Film that, and back it up. Then I'll support your claim."

I'll manage without your support.

"Otherwise, my shenaigans eternally remains."

Hooray!

Now, here's what you can do go look at Marion Jones 'roided up records and compare those to a top level high school athlete.

Candice Parker is a hell of a basketball player...but she is still a woman. I've been watching her play since Naperville.

She is too slow and too weak to play with talented men, period.

Anonymous Bryan said...
I can agree that the WNBA does not entertain me; and I can agree that succesfull businesses exploit their talent to maximize profits. But there is a point where exploitation becomes morally troubeling, yes? Where that line is drawn, as with any moral debate, ends up being subjective. I personally feel that changing to more revealing uniforms to draw more fans would represent an unacceptable degree of exploitation. Pointing to exploitation in the NBA or in factories in Taiwan for that matter does not mean that no moral line can be drawn here.

Anonymous Barry said...
A well-written article, as far as I'm aware. Judging it as a business, it barely has any right to exist but I think Stern wants to profile his organization as a friendly enviroment for everyone, you know lollipops and rainbows, rather than as hard business dominated by testosteron. Enter the WNBA.

I don't have the numbers and figures concerning finances and crowds, but as soon as the NBA gets in a rough patch they will probably ditch the WNBA unless it gets self-sufficient by that time.

Were he just to get rid of the WNBA this minute, one can only imagine the cries of masculism and surpression; justifiable or not.

Looking back this was more of a rant than a comment!

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
Also, I, for one, am quite proud to be one of your "lusty fans". Great asticle yet again.

From lower moral ground,
-AnacondaHL

Anonymous Andrew said...
Good LORD, how smoking is Shanon of the Luvabulls? Sheeeeeeit. Excuse me for a minute.

Blogger ChrisH said...
though he was better before espn snapped him up, henry still does a good job as the fark.com of the nba. every now and then he puts his own thoughts down and sometimes they aren't so well thought out. when you argue with him he tries to back up his stance but before long it is clear he doesn't know what he was talking about.

Blogger Evil Ted said...
Cortez - I know your manhood was questioned and all, but the vehemence with which you assert being able to beat a woman at basketball makes you sound like a bully, your descriptions of the amount of time you spend keeping yourself in prime condition for whatever pickup games you now play make you sound like a dude trying to relive his pseudo-glorious high school days, and the arrogance with which you state everything makes even a self-centered, super-competitive monster like Evil Ted (a.k.a., me) think "Jesus, this guy needs to lay off the 'roids and relax."

Get over yourself. Your presentation isn't winning over any hearts and minds. Trust me, I have tons of experience making people hate me, just as I imagine I'm doing with you right now.

- Evil Ted

Blogger Cortez said...
"I know your manhood was questioned and all"

Was it? I didn't take it that way. Reality was questioned and I responded. I'm a grating asshole like that.

"but vehemence with which you assert being able to beat a woman at basketball makes you sound like a bully,"

Or a realist. I don't give a shit about beating a woman in basketball.

" your descriptions of the amount of time you spend keeping yourself in prime condition for whatever pickup games you now play make you sound like a dude trying to relive his pseudo-glorious high school days"

My high school days were non descript and uneventful, thank you very much.

I stay in shape so that I reduce the chances of keeling over before my due time plus I love playing basketball, what can I say?

"Jesus, this guy needs to lay off the 'roids and relax."

'roids are for losers.

"Get over yourself."

I got over myself 15 years ago when I realized I wasn't going to cut it as a high level player consistently.

You must have skipped over that parts when I said I'm not even that good, relatively speaking.

"Your presentation isn't winning over any hearts and minds."

So what? I'm just some random asshole reading a website that I find highly entertaining (thanks to the owner for that).

I couldn't give less than a shit about "winning over hearts and minds".

What is this, Operation Iraqi Freedom?

"Trust me, I have tons of experience making people hate me, just as I imagine I'm doing with you right now."

You're fine with me.

You're reading comprehension needs work though. Or maybe it's your attention to detail.

Don't sweat it broham, I made the same mistake the other day on this very website.

"I'm not, compared to top men. I'm just a better physically than the vast majority of women and skill wise I'll do just fine. "

See that? I don't think I'm that good.

"Candice Parker is a hell of a basketball player..."

See that one? Due respect for the MVP.

At the end of the day, even if I can beat her (I would) all that would get me is...

...a big fat helping of nothing.

Blogger m. Alana said...
Evil Ted: I wish Cortez was as likable a jerk as you. I say that with love.

First of all, Cortez is a douchebag.

Second, Candace's father, brother, and fiancée are all/were NBA players. You can choose to assume that they go easy on her, but her brother and fiancée have repeatedly stated that she beats them one-on-one most, if not every, time.

Third, the fuck does it matter? They're playing each other. They're not playing men.

I never understand the vitriol people can summon for something they don't care for. Why not make suggestions to improve the play, instead of rant at length about how you could beat a girl? What in the ever-living fuck kind of relevance does that even bear on the situation?

This, this is people rarely admit to liking the WNBA. Christ.

Blogger Cortez said...
"I know your manhood was questioned and all..."

In fact, what kind of idiot would define his manhood in any shape or form based on the belief (fact) that he could beat an inferior athlete in a game that he is fairly talented at?

Like I said before, in the grand scheme of things I couldn't give less than a shit about beating a woman, or anyone else for that matter, in a basketball game.

Even if I am completely wrong and she dusts my ass off six ways 'til Sunday, I would chalk it up, acknowledge my misjudgment and continue rolling.

Seeing that I have seen plenty of high level women basketball player up close and personal, I'll stick with my original position.

Blogger Cortez said...
"First of all, Cortez is a douchebag."

That's apparent

"Second, Candace's father, brother, and fiancée are all/were NBA players."

Yep.

"You can choose to assume that they go easy on her"

I do.

"but her brother and fiancée have repeatedly stated that she beats them one-on-one most, if not every, time."

If you really think Candance beats Anthony Parker playing seriously at any point, nevermind at all, you must be insane.

Anthony Parker? You don't really believe that shit.

"Third, the fuck does it matter? "

It doesn't.

"They're playing each other. They're not playing men."

That's why their ratings are low. Which was the original point.

"Why not make suggestions to improve the play, instead of rant at length about how you could beat a girl?"

Here is my first suggestion...

play better which would call for more athetic ability.

"What in the ever-living fuck kind of relevance does that even bear on the situation?"

Reread the comments carefully, or get someone to translate for you, and answer you own question.

I don't think it's a great feat beating an inferior athlete.

"This, this is people rarely admit to liking the WNBA."

Really? they don't admit to it for this? Okay Mel.

Anonymous AK Dave said...
@chrish-

Yeah, I like it when Henry injects his opinion into his posts, or does something original. But the fact is, he is employed by a huge corporation that is watching over his shoulder and if he were to post something like Evil Ted or Matt posted in the last couple of days, he might lose his job.

I guess my point was that I hate it when people (*cough Henry Abbott) who would never go out on a limb and say something bold sit on their high perch and try to pick apart those who aren't afraid to write about what we all are thinking about.

I am beginning to understand why 'Bawful refuses to pick up any corporate sponsorship on this website, as it would greatly detract from the freedom of expression and that makes this such a cool place to visit on the web.

The fact that the more controversial issues draw far more comments than the benign posts is evidence that edginess is a good thing.

But what do I know, I'm just a lusty fan on the low moral ground who objectifies women.

Blogger m. Alana said...
Don't call me Mel, fucktard. Go work out some more. You're dismissed.

Blogger Cortez said...
You people are daft.

I just remembered who Parker's future husband is.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shelden_williams/

If you think Candance Parker is beating an NBA power forward/center in a game of one-on-one you must be retarded.

Shelden William was a blue chip Duke recruit.

By the beard of Zeus! Duke!

Nevermind the fact that I am a douchbag asshole, use your fucking brain.

Anonymous johnk said...
m. Alana- could you post a link to a story about Candace beating Anthony? If thats true, I'm impressed/ surprised.

In swimming, where you can objectively measure relative skill, top D1 female swimmers are usually comparable to good D3 male swimmers. An exceptional talent like natalie coughlin is about as fast as the guys who win D# nationals. I think it is similar for track (not sure). I would expect it to be the same for basketball as well.

And, well, most playground players would get killed by a really good D3 baller.

I don't watch WNBA, but if you do, more power to you. And saying they should dress sexy is demeaning to them and women in general. Nice try though.

Anonymous johnk said...
""First of all, Cortez is a douchebag."

That's apparent "

Hilarious.

Blogger Evil Ted said...
m. alana - thank you. I've worked hard to instill some level of likability into my jerkiness.

cortez - When you pretend that the comments sent in your direction don't bother you, it reveals that the tone of your commentary is how you are all the time. Yikes. Taking this knowledge into consideration, I suspect you and I shant be partying together any time soon. I shall no doubt be a lesser man for it, as I suspect basking in the glow of your greatness, even for a short time, might somehow alter my DNA and turn me into a low-grade superhero - second only to yourself, of course.

If you had no desire to win hearts and minds, you wouldn't be here writing so furiously. You'd be off jumping mountains and dunking boulders into canyons, which I suspect is the next thing you're going to assert you are able to do.

You are correct about my reading comprehension and attention to detail. Neither is a strength of mine, but it's grown more abysmal sifting through your lordly diatribes. I'd say I'm absorbing about every fifth word at this point.

Blogger Cortez said...
"m. alana - thank you. I've worked hard to instill some level of likability into my jerkiness."

"I've been online talking to internet babes all day!"
~Kip from Napolean Dynamite

"When you pretend that the comments sent in your direction don't bother you, it reveals that the tone of your commentary is how you are all the time."

There are two polar opposite ideas in this sentence.

Not surprising.

"If you had no desire to win hearts and minds, you wouldn't be here writing so furiously."

Wow! The Hollywood Upstairs Medical College is handing out degree is psychology again.

Great! Tell Dr. Nick I said hello.

"Taking this knowledge into consideration, I suspect you and I shant be partying together any time soon."

:(

"I shall no doubt be a lesser man for it, as I suspect basking in the glow of your greatness, even for a short time, might somehow alter my DNA and turn me into a low-grade superhero - second only to yourself, of course."

Even though I explicitly said I'm not great at all at least three times now.

Your educational system failed you.

You should sue.

"You'd be off jumping mountains and dunking boulders into canyons, which I suspect is the next thing you're going to assert you are able to do."

In fact, I bench press the mountains for 40 reps and 8 sets and then eat the boulders for breakfast, then I wipe my ass with the mountain lions that resided in those very mountains!

Hooray for me!

"You are correct about my reading comprehension and attention to detail."

I know.

"Neither is a strength of mine, but it's grown more abysmal sifting through your lordly diatribes."

Then stop responding and log off.

It's the internet, not the Matrix Evil Ted, you can leave at any time.

"I'd say I'm absorbing about every fifth word at this point."

That's obvious, more like every ten words.

You certainly are bitchy for such an evil jerk.

Tighten up your panties, broski.

Blogger Cortez said...
"Don't call me Mel, fucktard. Go work out some more."

fucktard? That's hurtful.

I....think...I'll...cut...my... throat...

Wait...

I'm fine now.

"You're dismissed."

Give me your address.

I'll send you a Ralph Tresvant album.

"You need a man with sens-i-tiv-i-ty girl, you need a man like me!"
~Ralph Tresvant of New Edition

Anonymous bob said...
When I was an undergrad at Rutgers, Matee Ajavon (#5 overall draft pick this year) would play pickup at the gym sometimes. She was far from being the best player on the court. All she would do is a crossover followed by a jumpshot. She was quick enough to get in the lane, but she's really short and can't jump, so she couldn't score there. Her jumpshot was decent I guess. She was very quick. But any day, you will see far superior players just playing pickup games at any decent court in the country.

She did talk a lot of shit when her team won though :) gotta like that attitude.

Sometimes one of the other girls on the team (I forget her name) would come. She was not a star on our girls team, and she was way worse than Matee. She was usually one of the worst players at the gym.

Blogger Cortez said...
"In swimming, where you can objectively measure relative skill, top D1 female swimmers are usually comparable to good D3 male swimmers."

Exactly.

"Cortez lifts mountains and wipes his ass with lions. And he says he can beat top level female players, as if that is some amazing feat! I don't like that douchebag! No party for you! Wahhhhhh!"
~m.alana and E.Ted

:(

Anonymous brandon hoffman said...
Great read.

I don't have a problem with the WNBA. I'll watch women's basketball before I'll watch men's baseball.

But I don't like flipping over to NBATV and being force-fed WNBA basketball. If I want to watch women's basketball, I'll buy WNBATV.

WNBATV doesn't exist you say?

Shocking...

Anonymous AK Dave said...
@johnk: "...And saying they should dress sexy is demeaning to them and women in general. Nice try though."

Huh.

Not to beat a dead horse here, but I'm going to beat this particular dead horse just a little more:

Firstly, as this post points out, the comments about the uniform change would be purely business-driven; but everybody agrees that people won't watch the games purely for the uniforms. If I want ammo for my personal spank-bank there are far more compelling sources on TV and the internet than women's sports. The game AND the unis need to change and that is why....

My contention is that not only should the uniforms be changed, but also the rules; the former as a matter of personal aesthetic preference, and the latter as a means of making the women's game as exciting as the men's game. Lower the rim. OK I'm done saying that- I promise.

I would like to ask any female readers out there honestly: do you think that the australian or brazillian national teams' uniforms are, as johnk and others have put it, "demeaning"? I find them sexy- and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I think they are stylish and sexy without being slutty. In short: NOT demeaning, and not offensive in any way. A step-up. An improvement. A pareto-optimal move that is good for business AND the people who play and watch.

I just find it interesting that it has been several men who have piped up saying that it's "a dark day in sports" or "demeaning" and so on if the aussie uniforms were used in the WNBA. What do you ladies out there think? Are you that offended that we men don't like to see you in the same clothes that male players wear?

I go back to your quote at the top of this book of a comment I am writing: if asking women to dress sexy is demeaning, then I just give up. Entire industries and indeed our whole existence as a species are based on demeaning women according to this statement. I guess you (and your partner) don't shop at Victoria's Secret, huh? How dare they suggest that women should look attractive to men!! That's sexist and demeaning and insulting!! LORD HELP US ALL!!

Do you feel demeaned because Tom Brady is on the cover of fashion magazines? Does it hurt your feelings and emasculate you to know that Wally Szczezerzebiakzc is adored by women, even though he is a mediocre player, and has a ridiculously hard name to spell- just because he's cute?

How many girls do you know who aren't sports fans at all but have a crush on a football/basketball/hockey player? They don't watch the sport, but they "love how their butts look in those football pants." Are you offended by this? I'm not.

Personally, I'm happy for those guys. And I'm happy for the ladies who get to see the exact form of any man's ass who plays in the NFL. It doesn't bother me, and you shouldn't be bothered if I like the singlet-style women's uniforms either. It's not demeaning- it's perfectly natural.

Blogger m. Alana said...
AKDave - You're right on a lot of points. I never said women's basketball was equivalent to men's in respect to athletics - it would be a stupid thing to say - but I do think it can be as enjoyable a game, and I think your ideas for the game itself have merit.

For the record, I do like the Australian uniforms. I remember coming across a game picture of, I think, Lauren Jackson wearing one, and I showed it to a friend, saying the American women players should dress that way. However, I think the uniforms should be tighter-fitting for men, too, simply because it is a sport, and they are athletes, and they don't dress like it, and it looks silly.

I do think you're off-base a little with your "demeaning" argument, though. It's not the fact that women dress sexily or buy from Victoria's Secret that matters. After all, I'm a girly-girl myself as far as clothes and shoes and so on go. No, it's not the idea of dressing sexily itself that's offensive; it's the idea that there's no place women can go where they don't have to be sexy, and men and women are not comparable in that respect. The constant pressure to be sexually attractive to men is present in almost every single arena of women's lives. Sports is one of the few places where women can, or could, have personal success without having to be sexy.

That's the difference between male athletes and female athletes, at least in that respect. I write about hot athlete boys at the Ladies..., and, as the other ladies and I have discussed, it's not comparable at all. We are all sports fans first, and hot-athlete-fans second. I can't speak for all of us, but I love basketball for the sport, not the hot boys - and I'm not expected to like it for the hot boys, because they are athletes first, and attractive people second. Men are not constantly sexualized in at all the same way that women are, and sports represents a refuge of sorts from sexualization - a small one, to be sure, with the Anna Kournikovas and Amanda Beards of the world, but still. Those women choose to be sexualized; other athletes choose not to be, and to only be athletes. It's the idea that the choice to be sexual or not is taken away by enforcing "femininity" on the league that bothers people, I think.

I'm not saying the tighter uniforms represent sexualization - I'm saying that's where the resistance you see comes from. All of that tl;dr considered, people are sensitive to the idea of sexifying female athletes.

Anonymous Panki said...
Just wanted to say that I'm from Warsaw, Poland, and I've never heard about those two golden boys. I feel sorry for you... seeing something like that... damn...

Blogger Cortez said...
"It comes out in all kinds of different ways. For instance, commenters will claim (Basketbawful nabbed one -- good going!) that they, the commenters, are better players than the women who play in the WNBA."

Wow! Another comment filled wih errors, and from Henry Abbott himself! For a "professional writer" he certainly is slopply with ideas and standard definitions.

I never claimed to be "a better skilled player than anyone", much less Candance Parker, despite the fact-free comments posted here.

And I quote...

"I'm just a better physically than the vast majority of women and skill wise I'll do just fine.

So while her skill set may be sharp, and I'm sure it is, it would be like me going to a karate match against a 6th grader."

and

"Candice Parker is a hell of a basketball player..."

See that? My argument isn't based on "skill" at all.

I don't hate the WNBA.

I'm indifferent to it to be exact. Since I love basketball, I stop and tune in from time to time if I have absolutely nothing else to do. It's just not that interesting or compelling. The very same reason I don't watch to mush high school basketball. Overall the quality is suspect.

Some of you nuts actually believe C. Parker can beat her brother, the GOD-DAMNED MVP of the top level Euroleague, in a game of one-on-one.

You really believe she can beat a fucking NBA power forward in a half court game.

What has this world come to when these ideas are considered rational?

And I'm delusional!

Blogger koberulz said...
I guess now would be an appropriate time to bring up that I play in a mixed-gender under 20s competition, and my team got completely owned a couple of weeks back by a 5' tall 16 year old girl.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
Okay, okay. Can't we all get along? I promise to get back to fart and penis jokes as soon as possible.

koberulz -- Seriously?

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Here is the thing...

The WNBA sucks, which is inexcusable because women's college bball and the women's Olympics is extremely entertaining. The marketing is bland and it just isn’t as exciting as the other forms of women's bball. What’s also mind-boggling because in the end of the day, it’s a business and its job is to make money, which it hasn’t. I regularly watch women's college bball and any international tournament women play in, but I turn on the WNBA and I fall asleep within 3 minutes. And that’s solely due to the fact that the product is not ready. What happened during the WNBA finals would NEVER HAPPEN to the Women's College Tournament Finals. Never, not in a million years.

That is one in a long line of examples that can be shown to display the fact that the WNBA is not up to par with other major sports...and fans know it. This is why the league can’t turn a profit. Does Women's College bball have problems turning a profit? Women’s international games? NO. Cuz they know what the hell they r doing and how to market themselves.

Thats why I dont watch the WNBA.

I just wanted to bring to light that Candace Parker had a span of 6 months that not even the best ballers have in their career. College MVP, Tournament Champion, Tournament MOP, Rookie of the year, League MVP and Olympic Champion.

Name me a bball player, male or female that has had put up those accomplishments in their whole career. How many do u come up with,m 3? 4? Thats crazy.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
your mario west insults are getting old. dude was a walk on at ga tech, undrafted walk on who made the hawks, and now fighting for his job again in camp. dude may not score like kobe, but his D skills are undeniable. but whatever, its your blog so you can say whatever you want.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
I don't 'hate' the WNBA.
But I do HATE being forcefed it.

AND I don't like the slowness of the game. And I don't like the lack of real 'highlight reel' plays.

sure there is fundamentally sound play. But think about the TV ratings of almost all the SPURS championship runs AND the last Detriot Pistons Championship.

IF the WNBA wants people to watch, Advertisements are NOT gonna get it done.

Some Suggestions

Lower the Rims (to 8 or 9').
Shorten the court (4-5').
Make em wear volleyball unis.

And I don't buy the woman's arguement that Women dress sexy for men.

Most men generally don't like SLUTTY attire.

MOST men want MORE to be left to the imagination than for it all to be out on display.

Most men HATE makeup.
Most men don't like to be teased unless there's an eventual payoff.

Most men could care less about Victoria's secret (A 'confident' woman being nude is much more of a turn on to most men- Lingere on a NON model is NOT very attractive).


NBA uniforms have evolved based mostly on what's 'popular'.
NBA unis used to be TIGHT fitting (see the DWade-CBarkley commercial)

Chris Webber and the fab 5 of Michigan who are generally credited with bringing the 'sag' style to the NBA. Other players thought it was cool, so THEY started wearing oversized gear.

The WNBA isn't in the position to 'set' any styles (it's obviously not popular enough).

Basically if you want more eyeballs on shoddy product, you'd better change something other than more advertising.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
On Second thought, scratch the Volleyball AND tight fitting uni's I suggested.

I really DON'T wanna see some ugly, manly, lookin female in a tight outfit.

Just Lower the RIM and shorten the court.

Blogger koberulz said...
Seriously. We played a 2-3 zone, she sat on the weak side, her team swung the ball around, she hit a three, rinse, repeat. Four or five times. Without her missing. She also ended up with a bunch of rebounds. At roughly 5' tall. Just the right height to hit me in the jaw with the top of her head, as it happens.

I think I'm going to go cry in a corner now...

Anonymous DumbGenius said...
Not to be forgotten, Women's basketball elsewhere in the world is doing okay (Australia, Brazil, Korea and parts of Europe if im not mistaken)

By okay i mean: not taking the world by storm but also not hemorrhaging money and pissing off blog readers who are talking of taking the high road, sexism, yada yada yada..

the question is, and i say this from a business perspective, "what are other countries doing that we can somehow fuse in the WNBA to make it moderately successful?"

Anonymous Barry said...
Koberulz - If that had happened to me, I probably wouldn't have told everyone.

But I would cry in a corner.

Anonymous Aaron said...
It's possible, by the way, that the WNBA can exist as a tax shelter. Pumping money into a losing business is how a lot of very rich people avoid a lot of taxation. So, it's also probably partially for the benefit of the NBA's Uncle Sam contributions.

That said: the problem with the WNBA is exactly what was written, namely, it's an inferior product played by women in men's clothing.

When ESPN has an over-under on their Streak game which questions whether both teams will average 72 points, you know you're watching minor league stuff.

Blogger koberulz said...
"What happened during the WNBA finals would NEVER HAPPEN to the Women's College Tournament Finals"

What happened?

"Koberulz - If that had happened to me, I probably wouldn't have told everyone.

But I would cry in a corner."

It didn't happen to me, so much as to my team. I could shut her down any day of the week.

Blogger m. Alana said...
Urgh.

Anyway, koberulz. Back in the seventies, my mom, who's five feet tall, absolutely killed it against both the boys on the varsity team and much taller girls in pick-up games. When you're as little as she and I are, the combination of underestimation, speed, and simply being able to go under people's guard makes it incredibly easy to get a good shot off. She was a much better point than I am, too, for a lot of the same reasons.

me: "So, like, you were the tiny Portuguese female Chris Paul of Connecticut prep schools, then?"

my mother: "Chris who?"

Anonymous ak dave said...
@m. alana:

I bet Cortez could shut down your mom; right before he wipes his ass with a mountain lion and dunks a boulder into a valley.

I hear what you are saying about being a sports fan first and being a hot person fan second and so on. But I know of lots of women- LOTS of women who dislike football but love the football pants and the well-conditioned male asses they contain. That is objectification in the purest sense. And I have zero problem with it. It gets women to buy Eli Manning's jersey, so the NFL loves it too. I know women who don't know the difference between the shotgun formation and a shotgun wedding, but they know who the quarterback from NYC is and own his jersey: the pink one that the NFL made for the female "audience" exactly because they think objectifying their athletes to increase profits is a good idea.

So... I just don't get why some people get all righteously indignant when somebody suggests that a woman wear something tight. It's... really not a big deal.

Understandable, however, that some women might resent that they feel pressure to always look good for men. My suggestion: move up here to Alaska. Tons of guys, lots of ugly women whom the men fight over at bars. I'm not kidding- a 4 or a 5 in sweatpants will get hit on non-stop at the bars here. It's absolutely horrible for single men, absolutely wonderful for single women. If you don't want to have to look sexy, and still get lots of attention, this is the place for you.

I agree with you that the men should also wear tighter stuff. It would stop a lot of jersey-grabbing and so on. Kirk Hinrich might need to get a new job though :) his pull-the-jersey defense on the pick and roll would become ineffective!

:D

Anonymous Adam said...
I don't know what moral stuff has to do with this thing. Like you said, it's business! There's no need to get a hypocrit position about it and freak out because of your opinion.

And yeah, maybe they would to better if they looked more appealing. At least to me.

Blogger K.A. said...
holy crap, this quote-and-rebuttal-guy is a douche. congratulations on turning this discussion, which was supposed to be about the wnba, about you, guy. you win at life.

Blogger Drake said...
My experience in playing against short girls who can ball and shoot:

I've been assigned to guard them sometimes (weird, because I usually play center/PF). I would usually not play them as hard on offense and defense as I would to other players because of their height and because they're girls.

So instead of posting her up, I would flounder around so that I wouldn't look like a jerk for taking advantage of her size and strength. Instead of playing Ruben Patterson style D on her, I would give her a ton of space and jump half-heartedly when she whot the ball.

Of course, she would never reciprocate that half-assed effort. She'd nail jumpers over me and drive past me when I jumped. And if I decided to post her up a little without using too much strength (just to receive the ball around the mid-post area), she would start pushing me away.

So after a while, I would invariably smack her next jump shot out of bounds pretty easily. It's not like I want to do it, but I still want to win the game and play again. Sorry.

Blogger koberulz said...
"When you're as little as she and I are, the combination of underestimation, speed, and simply being able to go under people's guard makes it incredibly easy to get a good shot off"

Having three junior state-league teammates and playing against a bunch of guys who look like they've never touched a basketball probably doesn't hurt, either.

Thing is, there really shouldn't be any underestimation going on. She's a four-time junior state league all star and was the MVP of her junior state league team last season. If you Google her, you'll get a ton of results telling you exactly how good she is. Everyone seems to be under the impression that for her to go pro is simply inevitable. She's the greatest thing to happen in Australian women's basketball ever. She's greater than Lauren Jackson and Michelle Timms combined. Seriously.

All this, and she needs five feet of space to get her shot off, has no left hand, is ineffective off the dribble, and just isn't aggressive enough on the floor to make the defense pay if they screw up. Defensively, she's rather easy to simply blow by on the perimeter, and has the worst close-out I've ever seen. She takes forever to get out to her player, so the shot is still available, and when she gets there, she's straight up and down, so she's easy to blow by.

How people can underestimate someone who is so frequently overestimated is beyond me.

"I've been assigned to guard them sometimes (weird, because I usually play center/PF). I would usually not play them as hard on offense and defense as I would to other players because of their height and because they're girls."

Isn't that somewhat sexist? It's quite possible that she has teammates worse than her. Gemma certainly does. No-one goes easy on them.

"So instead of posting her up, I would flounder around so that I wouldn't look like a jerk for taking advantage of her size and strength."

That's not jerky, that's intelligent. If she wants to play, she has to put up with it. Pretty simple really (though keep in mind that I stay out of heavy winds to avoid being blown away, so I'm not exactly speaking from experience re: the strength advantage).

"So after a while, I would invariably smack her next jump shot out of bounds pretty easily. It's not like I want to do it, but I still want to win the game and play again. Sorry."

Who doesn't want to win? And if you can not get owned by a girl in the process, surely that's just an added bonus?

We play a zone, and I'm normally buried at center, so I don't come up against her much, but when I do, she doesn't score. She tends to try harder against me than everyone else, though...her problem with not being aggressive enough just disappears when I'm on her. If she played like that more often, she might be worth some of the hype she's getting. It'd be a bit hard to create a giant personal issue between her and the entire league, though.

Blogger K.A. said...
ive played against girls and yeah theyll d up on u fo real. ill lay off a bit on d but being a perimeter guy ill just drive around/shoot over em and dont have to rely on bodying up on em (i mean theyre girls and have cooties, eww).

so me scoring at will against girl players is me being pro feminist. manwhile, not watching the wnba is me finding something more entertaining to watch, and not because omg girls playing basketball, lame.

sorry girls, heres me waiting for for you guys to start dunking on each other, maybe get a lil teabag action going on. thats whats up.

Blogger Cortez said...
"holy crap, this quote-and-rebuttal-guy is a douche."

Nuh-uh!

You are!

"which was supposed to be about the wnba, about you, guy."

Have you ever heard the term, it takes two to tango? Obviously not. Reread yor post...

References to the WNBA: 0
References to some random asshole on the internet: 3

As my orginal post was in direct reference to the topic I can safely assume you're just as dim as these other nitwits who think that C. Parker can beat a nba power foward in a half court matchup.

Anyway, you should have ignored me. Trust me, I'm not worth the effort.

"you win at life."

Wrong, I lost, or at least fell so far behind I might as well have lost, a long time ago.

Thanks for reminding me, jackass.

Blogger Drake said...
@koberulz -

I didn't say it wasn't sexist; in fact, it's to be one of the most sexist things I do.

But the fact is that the short girl isn't any different than a similarly short guy who isn't that quick or athletic, but can shoot and dribble a bit. And if I don't play that hard against that guy, I certainly won't against a girl is probably worse in this situation (the strength factor, plus the guy's jump shot is usually harder to block).

But for taller girl players with the same skill set, I play more aggressively because she needs less space to shoot.

So I would probably categorize myself as sexist, height-ist, agility-ist, skill-ist, and maybe a couple of other things. I guess I just don't have that killer instinct to go all out if I have so many advantages against the player.

But it depends on the situation: I've never played against Gemma.

Blogger m. Alana said...
Y'all, y'all. Did I say it was somehow sexist to beat smaller, weaker, less skilled girls at basketball? Of course not. That's basketball. That's how the game goes. That's how I got better - getting beat by 15 points in 21 by 6'4" AAU players and playing my hardest until I got better. But maybe, could this maybe make you think about why most girls don't even want to play basketball, and are less skilled? It's hard to learn when it's hard to find someone of a similar skill level, or someone willing to even play with in the first place. The girls that do play, in my experience, play harder for their bodies and care more about the game than a lot of male pick-up players, to let themselves always be beat by bigger, stronger (incidentally male) players. How much would you want to play if you were always getting beat, and that was unlikely to change? That's basketball. Think about it.

Blogger koberulz said...
"I guess I just don't have that killer instinct to go all out if I have so many advantages against the player."

It's a sad world we live in when people insist on being so nice to each other.

Blogger koberulz said...
m. alana: There are girls' competitions for girls.

Blogger m. Alana said...
koberulz: You're right. But boys of any age and skill can always find other boys to play with, any time, no matter where they live. Girls have to find what they can, and it's rarely other girls. It makes fewer girls likely to play, making the talent pool smaller, and the overall skill level lower. It's something that can only get better with time, but I have confidence that it will. That's all I'm saying.

Blogger koberulz said...
Can they? Guys' and girls' competitions exist pretty much equally here, and basketball is small enough that getting a bunch of friends to have a game with is pretty much impossible regardless of gender. It's probably different in the US, but this is a country where you can't be outside on your driveway shooting around without a bunch of people informing you how much basketball sucks. It's also a country that draws 2000 spectators to the national men's league grand final. The womens' uniforms are about the only basketball-related thing this country has ever gotten right.

Blogger m. Alana said...
I think the situation is quite different. I live in a semi-rural area in the American south, and every boy has a hoop in their backyard or plays at school if they're at all interested - so, about three fourths of the boys around here. Whereas I don't know any high school girls that play pick-up ball, whether on their own or at school or in parks. For a further example, my senior year of high school, we had fifteen boys on both the JV and Varsity basketball teams (even though they both sucked); we had seven girls on Varsity and six on JV. I think they had to forfeit a couple of games because they didn't have enough uninjured girls to play. It varies from area to area, but I think in most places the situation is somewhat similar, or at least it was in every place I've been. So, no - most boys play basketball at least casually, and very few girls do.

Anonymous Wormboy said...
Nice post, Matt.

Looks like you got yourself a good troll here. But others seem to be humiliating him sufficiently.

A guy making an ass out of himself in a blog comments section can actually be much more entertaining than a lot of Bulls intra-game events, I'm guessing.

Blogger koberulz said...
m. alana: There's nothing stopping girls from getting a hoop in their backyard or playng at school. They don't have to, nor would they even if they wanted to, play with or against guys in either situation.

Girls aren't meant to play sports, so they don't. They're mostly too busy worrying about their makeup, hair, and fingernails (and who decidd makeup and colored nails are attractive, anyway?).

Anonymous JRedick4 said...
I have to agree with everything cortez said. I have no doubt that if he plays ball that consisently and was anywhere near a D-1 talent, well, he could pretty much wipe the floor with any female basketball player.

I, a fellow hoops junkie can see where cortez's frustration is coming from--Candace Parker or any player for that matter is not talented enough to beat a skilled male basketball player with decent athletic ability.

Blogger Cortez said...
"I, a fellow hoops junkie can see where cortez's frustration is coming from..."

You have revived my hope for the rational mind!

Frustration may be a bad word. Confusion is more like it.

After reading the response over at truehoop.com on this topic I see that my point is well understood by people who play basketball.

My point wasn't to down talk female basketball players.

Hell, most of the time I prefer to play with the females that show up to the games. At least I know they more than likely skilled fundamentally and aren't trying to live out some Jordan/Bryant fantasy in their minds.

Nor was it my point to make the claim that I am some sort of exceptional talent. I'm not. If I were, I probably would be earning a check for tossing a ball in a hoop...I'm not.

The WNBA overall is not great & entertaining basketball. If it were, it would have an wider audience.

"Candace Parker or any player for that matter is not talented enough to beat a skilled male basketball player with decent athletic ability"

Nor is she athletic enough to beat a slightly lesser skilled player who is a far superior athlete.

Luckily for me, I don't judge people by their athletic ability.

...unless the judgement is directly related to athletics.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
wow i think CORTEZ needs a life. honestly u were posting comments for like 7 hours ur probably some little 14 year old that is pissed cuz he doesnt have any friends so he is trying to bring the wnba down. i know high school girls that kick the high school boys ass so if u think wnba sucks, go play a pick up game with them and tell me how it goes. when i see a tape of that then u can talk but until then please do u all the favor and SHUT UP

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